Chile Forum

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:With the apparent speed that the Talca deal was done, I have doubts that all the i's were dotted and t's crossed properly. Could be fun to watch the flames when that one goes down.

I don't know enough about the financing and property transfer to have any comment there. My concerns for a place like that are more that they are not real communities, which grew and developed naturally over time with a decent amount of diversity of incomes, jobs, demographics, etc. The planned bolthole communities more resemble mining boom towns or 1970s hippie communes: designer communities with an expiration date. They are fragile and only sustainable with large inputs of resources. On this point, SB does have some valid ideas- he wants a productive farm to be the key to the success of the development. He's on the right path there, but it will be no guarantee of success as farms are notoriously low margin operations and often times can't even support a family. The cafayate deal in Argentina is big on getting the grape vines to do the heavy lifting- good luck with that.

What's interesting is that the people who buy into these places are oftentimes astute business people. I'm not sure how they manage to figure these places pencil out. Maybe trust funders are big buyers; maybe it's just play money for the wealthy guys. Maybe people you thought were astute business folks were only adept at their own business and relatively clueless otherwise.

GJJIM wrote:

admin wrote:It is not that Argentina never learns, it is that everyone else fails to learn that Argentina is a mega pyramid scam.

Getting a nice flow of contacts now from foreign residents looking to get out of Argentina.

Here is one some sharpies in the U.S. are heavily promoting to "preppers" as an ideal bug-out location:

http://www.laestanciadecafayate.com/

The developers freely admit the national government of Argentina is totally incompetent and corrupt, and they had to bribe the local governor and his goons so the new arrivals wouldn't have to do it themselves. Hey, what could possibly go wrong in a situation like that?

woopy. Patagonia virgin has the same show in Frutillar down the road from me, without the Argentina corruption.

http://www.patagoniavirgin.com/

No I take that back. The owner did promise the city to build a bike path along the lake and some other stuff, in exchange for putting up some signs. Still, would not buy in to it personally; but, sure am waiting for it to be finished because they are just over the hill from my own property. I get all the perks of the major development (including property appreciation), without paying the mega price. Hell, I will likly make out better on the sale of my own property than the guys that bought in to it.

There are a lots of those developments in Argentina, and most of them are about to go bust.

Talca? Talca is an uncontrolled urban disaster, surrounded by an agricultural and industrial cesspool (do you really think all those fruit farms are organic?), that is going to run dry sooner rather than later as the demand for water rights is already outstripping the supply. Hope everyone buying there enjoys the dessert.

Talca is one of those places in Chile that has so much wrong with it, when ever I hear a foreigner say they want to move there I have to automatically ask myself what is wrong with that gringo. Sometimes they have good reasons, like they are in the agricultural biz or they are managing a factory, but most of the time its because they have not spent much time in Chile.

Puerto Montt is another city on that list. Every time I hear a gringo say they fell in love with the "charm" of Puerto Montt, I have to ask what is wrong with the gringo. I know what is wrong with places like Talca and PM and It should be pretty obvious to anyone that has spent some time in those places. Again, occasionally it is something that makes sense like they are member of the yachting community or work for the salmon industry, but everyone else ....

Read this, and then this forum's thread on FATCA. Tell me the hypocracy doesn't just jump off the page at you.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/16/2 ... tinas.html
Leadership in this day and age; just seeking new lows.

Right, the US congress, government, has the moral authority to judge another country as disregarding law. As though the the US government doesn't run it's own constitution through a paper shreader daily.

"that country’s pattern of “outlaw behavior.’’"
"“As a nation that mocks the law and declines to respect the property and interests of foreign investors"
"“For the sake of preserving the integrity of the international economic system, you cannot allow countries to get away with murder and send a message that there are no consequences to deal with transgressions.”"
"calls for stronger actions against “transgressor” countries"

US government, Argentine government, Euros, Russia, China. Barak, George. Shit, all of them.

latest on Argentina USD deposits:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... JA20120608

Seen on the news yesterday there have been 3 major protests in Argentina against the botox queen in 10 days. As I understand it has been a major scandal that Christina had all of her personal money in U.S. dollar accounts, meanwhile she is stopping average Argentinians from buying dollars.

What was really striking about the protest videos, was how well dressed the people were in the videos. They were not poor. They were the middle to upper class that are about to become poor.

Then you have these morons as usual claiming Argentina is just fine. I would be interested to see what they wrote just before Argentina collapsed last time.
http://blogs.reuters.com/globalinvestin ... tion-fear/

What was striking also was the foreign reserve of Argentina is only like 47 billion dollars (most held by the central gov, banks have something like 11 billion), but the banks are bleeding about 1-2 billion a month in official transactions, with some reports putting it at 1 billion a week. Now, if we assume the Argentina pesos is completely worthless (no longer a free floating currency that can be trusted), dollar reserves are greater than any other foreign currency, that means Argentina is pretty much set to be bankrupt somewhere between 11 weeks from now and early next year (just an eyeball estimate). The banks have now been told they can reduce their dollar reserves to deal with the demand for dollars, which is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. Argentina is going to bleed out one way or the other. There seems there is also some legislation that is coming along to force all contracts in to pesos, so things like real estate can no longer be sold in dollars. Well, you get the picture.

Perhaps that is a bit optimistic. Argentina seems to be imploding at a much faster rate:

This week we got agricultural strike set to start
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... 6I20120606

Confirmation that a law is going to be submitted to congress outlawing all contracts that are not in pesos
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-0 ... pesos.html

Pot banging protest in the street, and 25% inflation (officially 9.5% or something):
http://main.omanobserver.om/node/98321

If there is any shocks out of the EU or other global changes, Argentina is seriously in no position to deal with it.

I haven't seen this on the Forum yet, and although I can't post any link it might be of interest that Carlos Slim & family members has just purchased a reported 32.9 million shares of YPF Class D shares Tuesday and Wednesday. This is said to be a 8.4% interest.

Good catch, P
Carlos Slim adquiere 8,4% de YPF
http://noticias.terra.cl/mundo/latinoam ... aRCRD.html

In English

Argentina’s YPF soars most in three years after billionaire Slim gets 8.4% stake
YPF SA climbed the most in three years after Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim became the fourth-largest stakeholder in Argentina’s top oil producer.
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/ ... a=94dd6174

So they steal it from the Spanish (who are in disarray these days but have long memories) and then sell a big chunk of the stolen company to a Mexican (well his bank had shares and it was a private block sold to him), well I guess he is from this side of the Atlantic, I guess no Argies wanted to park a few hundred million in it, oh right they would have had to 1) admit they had the few hundred million dollars and 2) bring it back to Argentina, well the Mexican may be a palo blanco for some Argie who had 350M in his bank.