Chile Forum

I DEFINITELY am awaiting whatever el puelche cares to write about Chilean Nazis; it's been something I've been looking forward to for some time. And I think Papa Puelche has a better ring to it, but tio would suffice.

Hmmm....where to start.....first let me say that my experiences with the nazis spanned over several years...therefore, except for very generic dates, I will not reference any dates with any stories. I am not telling what I saw in any particular order. I am changing the names of the people I knew and I will not reference any town, city or location. I may get to far ahead of myself at certain points and don't be surprised if I erase a post after thinking better of it. I am only telling this in a forum as it does not involve my work anymore and most likely won't. It never involved my work directly but the seriousness of those involved is evident. Most, if not all of these guys are dead and its interesting; in addition, the nazis and all that helped them are an important component in understanding what South America is about and how it functions, why it functions like it does. Hopefully, for those that are clever and can read between the lines, you will find an interesting template that, when applied correctly, can be set over the Chile of today to render and illuminate why things are as they are...and where things will be in the future.

Finaly, I do not expouse or in anyway agree with the nazis( 3 of my uncles were shot by the nazis in ww2 <resistance>) I will mention other groups and what they did and lets just say this is a sympathetic account...my version of went on....and not footnoted with a bibliography. As you can already tell, this will get off to a slow start, if you want to call it that, for some of you. I am interested in sharing some of the things that happened to me and that I saw but there is an educational value to this history that is essential. Anyone can tell a blood and guts story....

Please, in advance I ask that no one link this topic or what it is about to anyplace else on the internet. If I find it to be linked I will erase it. This will be our little secret...

tp/puelche out

German immigrants began to arrive in the South of Chile as early as 1870 and by 1890 had really arrived in numbers. I don't know my German history from that time but I would imagine that some domestic issue drove them out and they began to arrive. THey chose the south of Chile as most likely it reminded them of home.

Chile had advertized, so to speak, in those early years for European colonists to come to Chile and start farms with big land grants and special loans. Most colonists arrived in the 1920's. The difference was that the Chilean government assigned the colonists the land...by 1920 they had had a good experience with the efficiency of the German immigrant and so they usually gave good land to the german and spanish "colonos"

If you don't think about it you don't realize that Chile had had a great deal of experience, very early on, with the Germans. Many are unaware of this and so as they read about Nazis in South America....they seem unable to grasp the idea that the nazis would blend in so easily. Many Germans had family coonections all over South America and as communication was not as difficult at the turn of the century, they still kept in contact and family in Germany knew that life could be made somewhat the same as what it was in the fatherland. It was natural for any exile to go to where he had a certain knowledge of the terrain and family.

There are alot of words in Chilean Spanish that are German and really no one takes any notice that originaly its german....kuchen<pie or tart> etc...personaly(although I'm sure there would be liguists that would disagree) I believe that the CHilean way of aknowledging something in a positive way with the "ja" goes back to german...its close as the spanish "ya' is similar but I notice that in the south the two words are used differently and I believe there is a diffference.

If you read anything about the nazis in south america you will notice that there is alot more written about the nazis in argentina, paraguay and brazil....I think that this is due to the fact that so many germans were already in Chile that when any new germans arrived they just blended in. In the other southern cone countries this was not as true and so they stuck out somewhat. I know alot of germans born in CHile and went to Chilean schools and have never been out of CHile and yet they speak castellano with that distinctive accent...they are certainly fluent in castellano but they carry the accent with them. It would be difficult to tell a german born in germany after a few years from these same german Chileans. THere were alot of germans that came into Chile after world war 2...they just didn't stick out...

Just like the german battleship Graf Spee in ww2, the "dresden" was found to be in the south atlantic marauding against whatever allied shipping it could find. The British grew tired of the "Dresden" and went after it chasing it south and around the horn. The Dresden, after rounding the horn, hugged the CHilean coast on its way north...trying to evade and escape the british fleet. THe dresden had been damaged and low on supplies pulled into CHilean waters south of CHiloe and hid for a time to make repairs. The Germans in the Chilean south responded by outfitting the ship and hiding it from british search planes. I would have to look it up but I think this went on for 6 weeks or so. The dresden made its break for open wate and made it to the juan fernandez(crusoe islands) island and was sunk with all hands lost. THe british and allied powers took notice to the effort that germans and Chileans made to aiding the dresden.

http://www.europractica-dresden.de/cruiser.html

correction...I thought all hands were lost but I just found this link and added it...seems even more involved that I thought...

I don't know that after ww 1 alot of germans came to Chile...I mean like mass migration. THere were certainly colonists that arrived. For instance in Villarrica there were basicaly 4 colonists that owned all the land around the lake...3 germans and one spainaird....they were each given 5ooo hectars to settle...all of them bought more hectars after a few years and some even were given more land by the government. Villarrica had been a town for a number of years by then but had been over run and burned by the mapuche 10 or 11 times by this time and so the government was making an effort to get some people in there with generous land grants.

By the end of ww2 the Chilean government had made tremendous gains in colonizing the south and it was in no small part due to the efforts of the german farmers. THe CHilean goverment made a huge effort directly after the war in recruiting the generaly lost refugee population in coming to CHile. Some were given land and some were not. Many were considered on the basis of thier trade and some were given visas because at the moment they just needed to fill the ship up. It really came down to how well you were able in selling your abilities to the chilean government. Chile took in alot of people from europe after the war, they had the experience to know that it would work out for them. They had to get things done and the seemingly displaced people after the war were going to help them get it going.

THe Nazis just fell into the mix. Obviously there was quite a spread in reasons why some were accepted right away and others had a harder time of it and still others just came in with the masses and no one ever noticed...until later...

mr p out

So what would be the point of view of some of the South American nations for recieving nazis...what would the Catholic Churgh get out of helping them...what would the US government get out of looking the other way...? What did the Nazis have to offer?

Most likely any plan has strategic and tactical options...really, this is simply the plan for the long term and the short term. Chile had already, like many nations worldwide, used European experience and techniques to set up everything from civil registry, tax collection etc. An obvious and immediate gain would be for military purposes...training, modernization and direction in the future in regard to fighting tactics and weapons. WW 2 had its share of new weapons emerge and although certainly Chile wouldn't be allowed access to that class of nazi, they were interested in getting what they could. (I knew a "Senor Grey" that worked for the government in trade)

Politicaly, although to some degree socialist, the South American nations had a value for family that was in contrast to the new communist block. Communism as well was no friend to religion or the Catholic church;abig part of life and major component in South America. The government was interested in getting the help it could to combat a new idealogy. Men that knew what the soviet horde was cabable of and could buck up a soft spine or at least teach and and lead by example against something so new and different. Men that knew what to look for, that knew the signs and weren't afraid to do what they had to do.(I knew a "Senor White" that was the supreme keeper of the nazi faith)

Socialy and culturaly...financialy...Chile needed people....There was alot of work to do....Chile wanted to go places and with the people they had it would be too slow. They also needed people that were experienced...people that had already done it and with the war of course they had lost everything and only needed to be motivated to do it again...hire people, teach by example, generate products and income. (I knew a "Senor Blue" and a "Senor Green"... and a couple of others that were most likely facists but not Nazis )

The nazis could offer all this and many times all in one package. THe Nazis could also offer something apart from an one individuals skil, a network. They usually had military rank, whether earned or not, and worked through channels to get things done..They were an organization...in fact they were organizations with a bigger organization...factions that could be one military branch or another but then also police, secret police, detainment, political enforcement, civil service and organization....what we might call an "outwork resource" company today...and they could keep a secret...they never gave up and were willing to die for thier job. They came in with everyone else most of the time, all the refugees and new colonists, mixed in together. There is something else that germans had..thier trade organisations....almost the original internet... where you could get anything and in a timely manner. Germans had a way of getting things done in down low, fast and sure manner...for a developing country and continent, this was essential and ...available.

mr p out

next getting out of Europe....

I think we're going to have all the colors of the rainbow in this story...

...I was thinking about it today...I've got in addition to what I already was thinking a Senor Black, Senor PInk, Senor Silver, Senor Mauve, Senor Orange and even a ...Senora Brown...all in time, I guess..

p out

your stories always are quite colorful....

This is really incredibly fascinating. Can't wait for the next post!

So now its the end of the war, although for some the negociations had been in motion for 4 to 6 months, and alot of guys want out. Well some aren't going to get any part of what they want because the US, British and Russians want them...I don't know anything about those guys and they aren't the ones that went south anyway.

After we go down the list a ways though...there were those that had thier talent but just weren't as trackable as some others.....so where did they go? Remember that many Latin countries did not declare war against the axis powers until the last two months of the war, Chile included. THere were alot of guys that had connections to South America that were legaly completely legitimate. THose that had talent or a certain fame were able to make thier way into already conquered territory, like Italy and Vichy France and make as if they were there the entire time. They plead thier case to the embassy and they've got a passport with a knew name, passage off of the continent and a job...these were men that could help organize governments...they could almost write thier own ticket and they did.

THere were men that the US dragnet had pulled in or that the US knew of and it was within the interest of the US to get them out. More often than not, these men were offered to foriegn governments. It was partialy a pass for these men for "helping out" with what we wanted to know, of things that had gone on. So they were helped out with a way out. Different men had different skills and thier were countries all over that needed skilled men. THe arrangement was made. And besides if in the future, the US needed help in that country than the difficulty would be very great not to help out. Imagine, some of these guys were going to be in the middle of it all with good intel and the US already owned them. The US government was a travel agency for these guys.

The Catholic Church has a certain image in the US and it has another image in the rest of the world. What the Catholic Church is in the rest of the world is more to what it actually is....an organization, albeit religious, that is interested in getting stronger and richer and wielding more power with every day that passes. I'm not pushing the Catholic Church into a spot that it already doesn't own...its just the way it is. The CC has many factions and "groups" that all belong to the CC but differ to some degree in how to get that one thing done. Within those groups are men that are dedicated to go that much furthur to get the ultimate goals of the CC completed. The "better" men in the CC look the other way because they have to get those things done. The CC was very concerned about the communist menace and there were those that saw the men that fell from the third riech as an ally, a backwards ally perhaps, in holding it back. The CC liked the "moral" backbone these men had and mostly admired thier steadfastedness and willingness to fight the reds to the death. Other sins were simply overlooked, after all we are now talking about the survival of the holy sacred church in areas where the reds had taken over. We certainly don't want this to spread and so it was certain men in the CC were left to do a dirty job. They moved these men with new identiys, visas, cash etc... through the vatican and other cc organisations out and away were thier talents would be appreciated and used to thier full potential. THe holy sacred Church must be protected and any other intel they could get along the way would be worth alot on the backside of the deal. THe CC does not bill out cheap, quid pro quo baby....

THere were others that got out to regular relief organiziations....they took an identity before the end and with alot of patience were able to sell it. The Smart ones went to several countries in succession, burying thier identity alittle each time till they arrived to where they want to go. How would you check documents and histories in Europe when half of the continent lost its files in the bombings, fires etc....Very difficult to check up on but these men were resourceful and they knew the tricks and it was just a wait. Others dissappeared into the Soviet netherland as POWs and when they got out 5 years later...everyone was over it already. And could the Canadian government not help out a guy that already had relatives in Chile? The relatives had only been there 4 years themselves but the Canadians didn't know that. Hey, good luck and it'd be great if when you get to Chile you drop some cash at the commonweath emabassy of Canada in Santiago...will ya? and the funny thing is they did...and thats why too, where ever these guys showed up they got stuff done....they only mixed in with all the other regular folks trying to work it out and get stuff done...so if you wanted to find one you had to look and listen very carefully...

p out

It wasn't until may or april of 1985 that anyone paid too much attention to nazis....there was always something to be said about this guy or that guy or so and so that did this other thing with that other guy...

During this time there had been rumblings in regard to nazis in Chile that led to a formal announcement by the interior ministry...and so it wasn't long and I remember going to the kiosko to get "el Mercurio" the national newspaper.....I bought it and opened it at home only to find the third page, which is normaly just editorials and the standard lukas cartoon, a full page wanted poster which literaly said..."wanted dead or alive Josef Mengelee for crimes blah blah blah ...and of course the reward which was USD$1 million...whoa....that got everyones attention.....they named a few others that were listed as nazis I think but this was major...so now every german was seen as a possible nazi and frankly worth maybe a little cash if they were turned in.

Everyone was now talking about who they knew that might be a nazi and if they would be worth any cash...the carabineros were flooded with infor and tips to where the nazis were hiding(they knew where they were already)...all the germans were nervous...well most anyway.

Some of the connections I heard made sense and alot didn't....alot of the connections I had begun to have my thoughts on and then were only confirmed when I heard what I heard.

I know that Senor Grey, who lived in another sleepy town nearby, got a surprise the day after the newspaper story. Senor GRey had come to CHile when he was younger and quite soon after the war. He lived in Santiago and was aide tho the government in a particular area that had been his expertise. He worked apart but still for the government. He was tall and thin and yet atheletic. He was extremely reserved and was not excited easily if at all. He dressed always very well and wore glasses when I knew him. He retired early on a pension from the government and his own investments. He did not talk about work or politics....ever. He retired to a small, sleepy town and was never married or had companions. He had a lone housekeeper and no gardner. His home was a little larger than standard size and was surrounded by a solid thick wall and you could not see in. In retirement he dedicated himself to the care of his garden and in particular his fruit trees. He would leave twice a day for a walk around town followed by two german shepards. THe dogs would follow at about 2 meters behind off to his left and his right. They followed him everywhere and he was never seen without them. THey were completely calm and well behaved but one got the feeling that if SEnor GRey was threatend in any way they would respond.

Then the day after the wanted info came out in the newspaper, at 8:30 am like always, Senor Grey walked out through his gate with the dogs and found something different. Where before there was never a soul, there were now 30 or so people seemingly standing around. Senor Grey closed his gate as he always did, wearing slacks, button-up shirt and cardigan sweater, and moved down the sidewalk to buy the paper and bread for the day. He did not hesitate nor did he acknowledge the people on the street. No one did anything and just seemed to be there as if they were there everyday. He walked his usual walk and returned home. Senor Grey was a major in the waffen-ss and still wore his ss tottenkopf ring.

p

Senor Pink was the antisthisis of Senor Grey.

Senor Pink was short and balding. He was rounder than he was tall. Senor Pink came to Chile about 1949 or 1950. Senor Pink had been in Russia as a POW and had been released. He got to Chile on the long boat or in other words...it took him awhile to get there. Senor Pink established himself as a small business owner and stayed away from everyone else as much as he could.

Senor Pink had a house that, with its design and location, was open and recieved all and anyone at anytime day or night. He always dressed the same and was the same with everyone...open and ready to talk.

Senor Pink, in his own humble way was a fixer of sorts. Senor Pink was always relaxed and surprised by nothing. He knew everyone and could fix anything. There were always people coming and going from his house. It was not un-common to see cars at his house for only a short time in the middle of the night. In those days the license plates of the cars would have written on them the provenence of the owners home instead of just "Chile" at the bottom. There were always the cars from Provedencia, las Condes etc at his house even though he was quite a ways from the RM. He was always fixing problems and he did his job well. I do not think there were many if at all complaining of what he could do for them.

Senor Pink never had the ocasion to fix my problems but I had friends that needed things fixed and we would go together. It was all dirt road to where he lived. THere were always lights on and inevitably he would be found in his living room in an easy chair. THe living room opened onto a great view and so often there was more light coming in from the outside than from whatever light he had on inside. It didn't seem like he ever slept as whenever I went he was always up and drinking the current seasonal libation....cola de mono, pisco o vino....as i said it was always very relaxed and so we would just go in to the house as it was always just "open"

I should mention here that Senor Pink was a homosexual. He was a homosexual of the old order in that he had alway several boys living with him at his house that he employed in his business. Twice a year he would go to Santiago and recruit boys that were usually about 15 to 17 years old to come work and live with him. They would stay as long as they needed and or wanted to and would change every 6 months or so to some degree. I know they were free to come and go as they pleased and that he even paid for several to go to university. This was certainly not something that I saw that was normal but really very difficult to say too much about.

As I said the house was always open but at the entrance whatever party would be greeted at the door by on e of the boys and escorted into the living room area where as I said Senor Pink would be sipping on a drink and listening to old german symphonic records. He wouldn't really stand but greeted everyone and had them sit down. THe boy would come in and ask what he could seve and as each person called out their drink of choice, Senor Pink would add whatever extra comment and final touch the drink would need according to what he thought and to what he remembered of you from the last time.

Usually the order of the day was local happenings to start and then the specifics in regard to whomever needed a "word". I was always in the sidecar in this respect and so deftly, Senor Pink would suggest that I go to this or that part of the house to find something that interested me. He knew from talking to me other times what I was interested in and would refer me to some new or different treasure he had that I could check out. Most of the time, whatever he had, wasn't meant to be that interesting and so I'd end up taking a walk and checking in until the conversation was over.

I had a few conversations with Senor Pink at different times that were not always about business and getting things done. He was always personable and there was no doubt that all the nieghbors knew everything that he was about. He frequently commented on what I was doing and somehow knew the details that he should not have known but he did. I didn't really worry about it as this seemed to be his business and he didn't make as far as he did for being indiscrete.

I remember one time walking in front of his house and looking in just as he was looking out...he had a guest and called me in to meet him. I wish I could say who it was....but of course I cannot...someone known to everyone on this forum and throughout the world...internationaly famous and well seen on many levels...so we sat and had a drink and talked on the sofa with a great view and had a glass of wine as different people meandered through.( I remember a man from the town coming in, very poor and was hoping for Senor Pinks' help in a matter with his work co-op situation and Senor Pink asking the famous ones opinion and then mine on what he should do and then promising the man that he would see what he could do to help him) It really only proves that no matter what...in CHile...you never know what is going to happen next....

Senor Pink I had heard got a agressive type of pancreatic/liver cancer and in the late 90s died after only 6 weeks.


p





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I was going to post another profile but since the site will be down I'll most likely wait until july or so when I can really get into it.

p.





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But that's more than two months away!!!

just chumming the waters to see if there is anything out there....maybe I'll move the next post to end of may....maybe...


p.







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I have to admit, the read is very interesting and look forward to more.

You can't leave us hanging like that Uncle P.