Chile Forum

cool thread el puelche. Good that people can see that we are not crazy. This stuff really does happen. It is also why we expect to be helping people buy real estate in Chile for many years to come. We actually prefer clients that have tried to buy property on their own. They appreciate what we do, and how little we charge for it.

I do not want to hi-jack El Puelche's thread, but I just want to toss in a few comments as he goes along. Our own how to buy real estate in Chile articles and FAQ can be found here:
http://www.allsouthernchile.com/content ... ion/21/65/
and FAQ:
http://www.allsouthernchile.com/content ... on/34/121/

In regards to property lines, we strongly strongly urge all of our clients to hire a surveyor. They are relatively cheap in Chile at about $300-600 US depending on the access and difficulty of doing the survey. Many of our clients have discovered that the properties are bigger than the seller believed them to be. Often properties expand and contract in peoples minds over the years. More importantly it will stop property line disputes later. We have a client that did not resurvey before purchase (they bought it on their own), and they are now up to several thousand dollars in expenses to solve the dispute even though all parties are still friendly and working together to figure out a good solution.

Also, be aware that GPS is nice to have, but make sure you know how to use it and buy a good one. Keep in mind that the military keeps a drift on GPS, and that the cheaper ones are not as specific. Also, be aware that your gps coordinates may not correspond to the properties official plot for a whole host of reasons that I will not get in to right now.

In regards to what people tell you, get it in to the contract. For example, if you want the old growth trees, have it written in to the contract that they are there. That way if the care taker cuts them down before the purchase, you can hold the owner responsible for them.

Most importantly take your time. Our new favorite quote is from the bus driver between Chaiten and Futa we recently overheard. A guy on the bus was in a hurry and trying to rush the driver. The driver turned to him and said, "senor, if you are in a hurry in the Patagonia you are waisting your time".

I would add you are also waisting your money. Being in a hurry will cost you more money and time in the long run. It takes as long as it takes.

Most importantly, get a lawyer. You don't have to hire us, but hire someone.

The admins real estate tip of the day:
Dealing with bureaucrats in Chile is like treating a wound on your arm or leg, slow steady pressure is the best policy; but, don't put to much pressure on it or you will cut off your circulation.

Bump.
Thanks for the info el puelche. I hope you can continue this thread.

This part below has got me just rolling on the floor. Remember we do this for a living. I just wish I could tell some of the stories of the deals we have handled, but I can not because of confidentiality agreements. Perhaps, I can ask some of our clients for a waver, and change the names and such.

See, it is one thing when you are looking for your own property. You may or may not have a bunch of problems buying, but once it is done it is done. For us, everyone's problems in real estate transactions in Chile are our problems, so we are constantly dealing with them. If all goes well, most of our clients will never be aware of the problems we encountered to make it happen.

This includes both the buyers and the sellers. Even though we only represent buyers, we still need to help out many times the sellers. Often the sellers are just as ignorant of how to transfer property as the buyer, especially when you get a gringo involved. We often fine the poor farmer trying to sell to a gringo that speaks little to no Spanish, scratching his head trying to figure out what makes the gringo tick. What does he want? what is he willing to pay? What is all the hub bub about international wire transfers, powers of attorney, or even just having a lawyer involved.

Why can't we just shake hands and be done with it? That is likely how the farmer bought his property, and why we have to go through clearing his title. If we simply tell him he needs to hire a lawyer, a surveyor, or do something else to clear his property for sale, the sale will nevvvvvvvvvvvvvver happen.

Like I said we represent the buyers, but to do that we often find ourselves representing the seller simply to clean up whatever title, logistical mess, family mess, community mess, or any other mess they might have so that our clients can buy the property free and clean with the least amount of problems. Which also means we need to be on good terms with the seller and have their trust, and the real estate agent, and their cousin, and the town drunk, and everyone else that might have anything to do with the sale.

We tell our clients, if you are out to burn some local farmer or do anything funny with the community, you really really need to find someone else to represent you. It is our reputation with the local farmers, the local mayors office, the little old lady selling bread on the corner that help us get things done both before and after our clients buy.

ADMIN REAL ESTATE TIP OF THE DAY:
Remember, you are more applying to be a member of the community, than you are buying property. If they like you, then all the deals will come out of the wood work and prices will come down.

Chile is not Walmart. Don't simply say "I'll take it" and whip out the checkbook. This will cost you money both before and after you buy. Instead get to know the owner, their family, their cat, their horse, and their horse's cousin. Stop and have a cup of mate, a bottle of wine, or dinner with the seller. Invite them to dinner where they will feel comfortable.

Later when you do have problems, you will find it much easier to solve. Now, obviously these rules apply more as you get away from the big cities, but they even work in Santiago to a great degree. It is harder to say no to friend, or give a friend a bad deal.

Most first time purchasers in Chile take between 1.5 and 3 years to buy when done right. That is to say it will take you that long to fall into and out of a few land deals until you understand what it is that makes a good sane deal. There are exceptions to this and it usually means a great amount of risk. Note, I am not talking about a simple house on a simple lot in a simple spot...that is much less comprehensive and therefore much less work. Do not be unaware that you can have the same problems on a small purchase as a large one so better to hear the worst than to go forward un-knowingly and find yourself up to your neck.

Remember to say the least possible to everyone you are involved with. Everything gets around and if you fall out of a deal, all the details will follow you around...accent on the ugly...so be...conservative in everything...anything "positive" you say like "..what a nice barn..." will communicated to the seller via real estate agent, caretaker, ranch hand, nieghbor...local children etc as...".....I will pay whatever it takes for this property because I love the barn...in fact I am going to convert the barn to a house and give birth to my children there..."...make up whatever you want here as that is what it will come out too....and so this will cause issues and furthur escalate anyhting going on with the purchase. Remember at all times that there are other properties and it is not the last one to be sold.

I remember going to look at a property on the edge of a large river...it was about 25 hectars with a house and barn plus pumphouse etc...The connection told me about it and said it was 4 mill a hectar...on the way out in his car I asked him to call to make sure of a few things and he confirmed at that moment via phone with the owner that the price was 4.2 mill....we arrived I reconfirmed the price at 4.2 and wrote it down....we walked the property and I complimented the woman on her work with everything and she comments that yes the price was 4.4...I didn't say anything...at he end the price was 4.5 and nothing less....so i casually brought up the idea that it had started the day before at 4 mill and then 4.2 and then 4.4 and now 4.5 a hectar...so what do you do?...you turn and walk away and never go back....if you make a scene, it doesn't matter, you won't win and they are not going to reduce the price unless its through extensieve third party negotiations.....

Generaly properties are put out to sale with several parties...real estate agents for town, taxi drivers are a good source as they are very social and a good way to get it out and generaly a local in the area that is to some extent a mover shaker,,,generaly ther is most likely a mover shaker type for every 15 or so square kms in the country and maybe one for every 5 to 10 blocks in town that is in the know.

Traditionaly the seller will pay up to 2% of the total selling price. this amount is paid at the time of the signing of the purchase agreement. If you use or hire a real estate agent or a "fixer" he will charge 2% of the purchase price as well. It is paid at the signing of the purchase agreement. There can be exclusions to this but that is special and we will get into later. Make sure that you discuss the percentage or at least have whatever the agreement is handled before you get to close to the final deal.

el puelche wrote:So where were we...?..

At last, another installment in el puelche's real estate misadventures in the Chilean Patagonia....I anxiously await another.
For those of who aren't spanishy, what significance is there in your statement of "chhaaaaaa?" I am sure there is humor, just lost on this gringo. Please do elaborate. Thanks. G

Greetings Excaliber.

Not the first, nor the last. El puelche shared in a prior post of a time back in the Pinochett era when the government was attempting to settle the Patagonian islands. Few took advantage of the offer, and since then, they have virtually all been taken off the market for sale, and in fact are declared property of Chile, and made into Park property. Few exceptions do exist, and these are in the Millions of US. Chile did an about face back in our Clinton years, and decided to grab land like our presidency did, and so now they have made most of the island chains parks.
With that being said, whether there still are some diehards out there from the original colonization efforts, I haven't any details other than what he briefly wrote, and that was an off hand.
Best that I can tell, and Admin can advise us otherwise, there exists the 50 year lease option like most park land in America. OF course how to get to where they will lease this land to you is another investigation, one which I would find fun in a running your head into a wall kind of way. See which one yields first. Of course, money may make the doors open, as to whether you can get ships to supply you...you're on your own. There are channels used in open navigation by ferries, so I would focus on building/leasing along one of these corridors. Satellite internet and phone will be your only options. These aren't cheap, though the price of phones is coming down to a few $1000, and they have worked out text messages for free with you $2 a minute rates. Not exactly T-3.
I haven't worked out the satellite internet bugs yet, but there are emerging services that aren't to astronomical , but you are investing in technology that is unproven. Worse, hasn't even passed market acceptance, yet alone government approval. So early adopter will likely be your only option, besides text messages only with Satellite phones on the Irridium systems.
As to being on your own in the Patagonian Temperate Jungle Islands, or further south in the Mountainous Wilderness and Glacier Pack, you will be stepping off into uncharted territory. The sheer unknown, vividly wild, and uninhabited awaits you. You aren't completely off the planet, but you're getting a site closer. What prehistoric relics still walk, swim and inhabit these haunts, who knows? There are plants here that simply aren't in any known horticulturists repositories. Oh, and you will have plenty of bamboo to deal with. Islands literally covered with them. These will make agriculture difficult to start, and means you will have to clear cut an area to begin with. Those without bamboo, will likely be completely overgrown in trees, some of which the country deems invaluable and on the verge of extinction. Sacrifice the wild to make your sense of order.
Better rent a launch or skiff, and spend some alone time finding what would be an habitable and arable landscape, then having to rip up and tear down the jungle.
Some of these islands are beyond inhospitable. Most of these are fjords. Think Norway, with little in the way of level. Mountainous with some vegetation. You would be reduced to daily survival, and far from rescue for a long time before any beginning could be achieved. Bring earthmovers, tnt, and a sea plane when you need civilization.
I recommend trying Chiloe or a little farther to Melinka, or still farther to Tierra del Fuego. Of course, you'd be going from Seattle, to Vancouver to Alaska, and so, figure on what to bring with you based on where you search.
Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip...G out

PS-Who hasn't dreamed of dropping out and holing up on his own private island? A dream, a possibility, and certainly not unattainable. Just not sure on this Patagonian locale. Although isolated, desolate, and mostly deserted, yet not a habitation of pirates like the South China Sea. Hope you'll keep me up on your searches.

PPSS- A German Battleship, the Dresden, hid in the Patagonian Coastline back in WWI. Wasn't there another German Battleship that did the same in WWII?

Someone poosted the portalinmobiliaria.com website as one way to look for property in chile and i spend time there often. There is a pull down menu with choices like casa, departamento and so on. I am confused by the terminology for land. They use Local, sitio, parcela and loteo and agricola {farm) and you can choose one. Can someone define the particular meaning in Chile for each of these terms. Thanks

Greeting G, and thank you for writing such a comprehensive answer
to my post.

I appreciate your concerns about the wilderness and isolation ( which
can be very relative if you are only a few miles from a coastal town as
is the case with several islands ) but I believe that most are manageable
in the same way as you would manage living in any remote area, even
on the mainland, providing one finds that type of lifestyle desirable and
is up to the challenge, that will go a long way to ease the pain.

Funny you have mentioned Norway, as that is another country I am considering ( the Southern temperate part ), as I am in love with that
type of landscape, and I was very happy to discover that Southern Chile
offers the very same kind of environment to Norway, with the northern part of Patagonia not being subjected to extreme weather but temperate
one, like Southern Norway.

At the moment I am in the information gathering process and nothing will happen until I evaluate what is available and at what conditions, and of
course with enough $$$ ( which I am still working on ) plenty of comforts can be set up anywhere, and will ease the pain of leaving what we call "civilization" ( something I am looking forward to doing a.s.a.p. ).

But on my side I have the fact that the project I have in mind would require only a small scale life support and no jungle clearing or any other major impact on the existing environment, which I intend instead to strive to leave in as wild a state as possible, beyond what is strictly necessary to set up a proper house and living area, because unspoilt nature is a large part of what I am looking for.

Time will tell, and in the meantime I will look into it in the best possible way, I think it will be only a matter of time and, if all goes well, I shall invite you over for a holiday

As far as the WWII German battleship is concerned, I believe you are referring to the Admiral Graf Spee which was involved in a battle with
a British task force in the South Atlantic, was forced to temporarily seek
refuge in the port of Montevideo ( Uruguay ), which was a neutral port
at the time, in order to try to repair the damage suffered during their
engagement with various British ships, which they were not allowed to do. The ship was later on scuttled by the Germans outside the Montevideo Port.

helibel wrote:Someone poosted the portalinmobiliaria.com website as one way to look for property in chile and i spend time there often. There is a pull down menu with choices like casa, departamento and so on. I am confused by the terminology for land. They use Local, sitio, parcela and loteo and agricola {farm) and you can choose one. Can someone define the particular meaning in Chile for each of these terms. Thanks

BUMP
and "fundoi" also???????

Excalibur wrote: I think it will be only a matter of time and, if all goes well, I shall invite you over for a holiday

As far as the WWII German battleship is concerned, I believe you are referring to the Admiral Graf Spee which was involved in a battle with
a British task force in the South Atlantic, was forced to temporarily seek
refuge in the port of Montevideo ( Uruguay ), which was a neutral port
at the time, in order to try to repair the damage suffered during their
engagement with various British ships, which they were not allowed to do. The ship was later on scuttled by the Germans outside the Montevideo Port.

Well, I should look forward to your invitation...should you be on the Southern Pacific versus the Baltic Sea. I'm not sure about visiting Norway, not being a lutefisk lover. Something about fish rotted in lye...

As to the Graf Spee, I recall some of that ones run into the Atlantic, but forgot her inglorious demise outside Montevideo. Of course, such was the fate of all Axis surface ships, so why be surprised. Thanks for rekindling some lost lore. I recall a documentary on the Yamato Super Battleship, and the similar loss of it all. She was a monster.

Anyway, good hunting on your new digs. I imagine going home for the holidays would be a sight easier from Norway, than Chile.

G out.

helibel wrote:Someone poosted the portalinmobiliaria.com website as one way to look for property in chile and i spend time there often. There is a pull down menu with choices like casa, departamento and so on. I am confused by the terminology for land. They use Local, sitio, parcela and loteo and agricola {farm) and you can choose one. Can someone define the particular meaning in Chile for each of these terms. Thanks

Although I found the same website helpful, I also found it similarly confusing. I am in the same boat as you.

Hope we all can look forward to el puelche's next installment of land purchasing 101 in Chile....please?!!

G out