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construction method

Buying, Selling, Building, Tax issues, anything regarding real estate or properties anywhere in Chile.

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construction method

Postby schub71 on Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:27 pm

My name is steve schubert. I am an architect in the USA. My friend owns some land in the Elqui region and wants to build some cabins and clubhouse. What would the typical construction method be for that area? Or what would be the least expensive construction? Thanks for the information.
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elqui region building materials

Postby el puelche on Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:50 pm

Buildings in the elqui region for the most part are/were built in adobe with a plaster exterior and a light framed roof and zinc(corrugated steel) roof. Newer construction(a relative term as the elqui region was essentialy the first formal settlement area in ...1545..??or so)...anyway newer construction is slab construction with block walls although more common is a poured in place concrete columns and beams and then filled in with brick. In a situation where there will be a second floor then a poured in place floor is set over the beams. A light timber framed out roof is done with a on site truss usually and then zinc on top for the roof. THe elqui region does not get alot of rain. Windows are usually metal jambs with metal frames. Doors are metal jambs with a wood door. It is possoble to get all wood jamb with all wood door in the area although somewhat expensive. THe order of the day for cabana or touristic structures seems to be to add on the roof a reed type application that gives the building a softer more relaxed look although is completely cosmetic. Building completely in wood, as they do in the south of CHile, would be completely cost prohibitive.

regards, puelche


also...chile has not had a signifigant earthquake in awhile but certainly a good building design should take into account siesmic activity(the strongest recorded earthquake to date>Valdivia 1960 9.3 for alittle under 2 minutes)
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construction method

Postby schub71 on Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:33 am

Thanks for the information. Would it be costly to building the walls and floor out of concrete and then have wood columns and beams for the ceiling? The client would also like to use clay tile roofing. Is that available in that area, or even used at all? Thanks again for the help.

Steven Schubert
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mas construcion

Postby el puelche on Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:54 am

You will find that all concrete work in the north is reasonable. Any heavy duty wood construction product will be expensive and of marginal quality..actually less than marginal...bad....so its really up to you and how much you are willing to put up with in regard to cost and quality. It would be better for you to find and purchase the the wood materials in the south yourself and then transport it north. With the frieght cost it will still be expensive but the quality would be excellent...this would be an effort that you can not hand off so be prepared to do it your self or have a principal from the project do it for you. La Serena has an excellent tile supplier in the middle of town. When the typical red tile is used, and as a wood truss to support it would be too expensive, the alternative is a steel, welded truss with plywood sheeting and felt. If the client is really into the wood then really the only alternative is going to the south and bringing it up your self....any other way and you will have enough heartache for two life times. If a wood supplier is a serious aspect of the job and you need contacts than pm me with your contact info and I can set you up.


puelche out
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construction method

Postby schub71 on Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:26 pm

Thanks again for the information. You have been a big help. I would like to get some contact information of contractors that will work in that area. I would like them to look at our drawings and price up what it would cost for them to build it. My email address is steves@halstead-architects.com. Thanks again.

Steve
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Postby mlightheart on Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:48 am

el puelche & Admin,

How common is concrete construction for homes in southern Chile, the Lake Region?

How common is construction with steel framing for homes in Chile? Steel doesn't warp like wood and is uniform in size and relatively easy to work with.

I had plans on building a home with a combination of concrete and steel. Easy enough to do here in the US, but might be quite a tall task in Chile.
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steel

Postby el puelche on Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:41 pm

....there are now homes being built in steel down in the Puerto Montt area from what I have heard. Most if not all public buildings....schools are built in concrete with brick as I described above....concrete in a mix and delivered by truck is about 60 lucas a square meter and can be delivered in 4 to 8 meters a load....depending on road conditions.....there are concrete pumps avaliable but are very expensive....most all multi level condo units in the south are in concrete so its not like it isn't done....smaller residential homes in the country are almost always sdone in wood...although in caburga there are alot of modern style homes in concrete, steel and glass.....(arch digest 2001 or so)....

I am trying to work out a cost per square meter ratio for the different types of construction and it is very difficult for a miriad of reasons....materials that are available, complete tool system to adequately install the materials<therefore taking advantage of time savings using the right tools>...reliability of material supply and delivery....we could go on....my feeling to date is that you build the house you have dreamed of and you make it happen dragging everyone along with you whether they want to come or not....the project will realize itself somehow and at least through all the heartbreak you will have the original dream and ethic that you started with.....plus you'll make alot of new friends along the way......

synopsis of what I have just said.....get in the boat and paddle as hard as you can downstream and when you hear the distant sound of the falls...paddle harder....it'll all work out....mas o menos.


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wood

Postby admin on Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:36 pm

Most of the stuff to do metal construction is available at Sodimac home centers in southern Chile. You can check their site for the prices more or less. Problem is workers that know what to do with it. Be prepared to give training courses.
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construction and workers

Postby admin on Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:46 pm

I got to tell this story. I was at a BBQ / asado with one of our construction consultants a couple of weeks ago. He is Chilean, and oversees and approves the money for municipal projects in the 10th region.

I was trying to talk to him in a positive tone about the Chilean construction workers, the problems we have with them, and what how we might fix them (being polite, he is Chilean after all). No matter what I said about them he would cut me off with the Spanish equivalent of, 'no, they suck'.

I was like, "well mabie we can train up a crew from scratch".

He was like, "won't matter".

"Well perhaps we can weed out a custom crew and pay them well", I said.

"nope, won't matter".

He simply thinks that the rut of all evil in construction is the poor quality of the workers.

When I floated my idea about bringing in Mexican construction crews from the South West US, he thought that might work.
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Quality of workers / Quality of Managers.

Postby mlightheart on Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:24 am

I think this was brought up in another thread about poor management and poor workers. The thread that mentioned the new pub that was successfully managed by an American for a year or so and then was run into the ground by a Chilean manager who rarely (never?) showed up to direct the workers.

So when it comes time to build a house down in Chile, after successfully buying the property, will the new owner have to be constantly at the building site to make sure things are progressing as planned?

It seems that a lot of Chilean construction workers are only as good as the direction they are given. If they have not been given good direction for the years they have been in the construction field, will they be able or willing to take constant direction?
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Postby el puelche on Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:04 am

the typical chilean construction worker wants to do a good job...especialy if they connect with the owner/buider on a personal level....really the management level instruction needed is quite selfish and you will find that this style of getting things done hinders the work to be done constantly...good workers cna eventually get the job done but it will take a longer time than needed...to get the best job and getit done in a timely manner you will have to have more rigourous management style that is usually found in the usa...that management may be you personaly or a Chilean but without it you will take along time to get your house done...and you'll wonder about the quality in the end ....

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cuts both ways

Postby admin on Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:14 am

Well it does cut both ways. You can bring in good management, and put a crew in to shape. The problem is that they have been managed so poorly for so long that doing damage control in itself can be costly and perhaps simply inhumane.

Think about a crew say in the States. The guys typically worked their way up from basic sweep the floor to framing to managing a crew with good managers and good examples around them. If you try to slap together a work crew in Chile or fix a broken one overnight, you will have rebellion on your hands.

We have seen this with an international manager from Switzerland that came in to Chile to run a hotel. The workers complained and rebelled, and the owner replaced him with a Chilean manager (by the way, he was running the place in to the ground also). The workers and the community (he did not pay his bills on time) started wishing that the Swiss guy was back in charge in about a month.

It is simply how long it takes to readjust cultural traits that is at issue. Do you really want to spend the time and money to do it cold turkey. Careful planning is needed to pull it off, but it is possible. Most people however can not or will not retrain a construction crew just to build a house or cabin.

That is why we offer the construction consulting and the legal contract oversight for our clients. What we do is carefully put the burden of cost and expense to perform on the construction companies shoulders where it belongs. Payment based on contract performance basis. If you hire workers directly yourself, then you are at the mercy of their bad work habits and need to be on site.

If we can hold the contractor responsible for performance and quality, things get done. That means clear oversight, mile markers and inspection to get paid, and solid legal contracts that the company can not slip out from under when things are done wrong.
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