Chile Forum

Is Agenda 21 a topic in the news in Chile?

Are any Chilean cities, provinces or regions which are members of ECLEI?

No need to answer if you don't know what these are.

Thanks.

No. Does that help?

Great question, NCFYM. I look forward to an answer and / or commentary from eeuu...

California South wrote:Great question, NCFYM. I look forward to an answer and / or commentary from eeuu...

holding my breath here in ECLEI-stan.

Here's a primer.

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/article ... 090804364/

Founder is a local here. I guess if you want the blue prints of the DeathStar, start with the slaves in the engine room.

http://www.freedomadvocates.org/images/ ... 202009.pdf

don't get it. this means what for Chile?

The local mayors and goverment offices have about zero real authority in Chile beyond doing silly things like selling advertising space or getting the road in front of their best friend's house paved rather than getting someone else's road paved (the decision to pave a road is made in Santiago, but which one might get decided a bit closer to home).

Point being, the local gov got sold long ago just because of the political structure of Chile. It more or less all starts and ends in Santiago, right down to the guy that gets to hold the shovel to dig the ditch for the mayor's best friend by some "consulting" firm from Santiago.

The most important factor why this has little bearing on Chile: THE LOCAL GOVERMENTS HAVE NO REAL DIRECT TAX REVENUE!!!!!

So they need to get a lot more down the road to decentralizing the country before this means anything in Chile. A lot more.

This allows elected officials to shirk their responsibilities. It turns us into a soviet system that is based on Regionalism.

Really?

I am terrified of this occuring in Chile. I really am. How will the country survive?
It will be the end of Chile as we know it.

Wait.

That is pretty much how the country is already setup. It is in the constitution.

What might be really terrifying is the local goverments getting some local authority finally and then exercising it. Kind of like after the earthquakes when they decided to boycot the reconstruction efforts and aid relief being sent in to their towns. Warehouses of aid sitting stacked to the roof while the local mayors and polticians squabbled over who would get it.

patagoniax wrote:

admin wrote:.. local goverments getting some local authority ...

The first thing that local governments in Chile do with any sort of funding or authority is engage in some heinous act of regionalism that is intended to handicap, discredit, alienate, or directly harm some other region. There are already half-baked separatist movements evolving in Aysen and Magallanes, and though they are without any real hope of getting anywhere, every year it seems that they gain some greater degree of popular support. The country would not be well served by becoming further Balkanised, through the granting of greater regional powers.

Hmm, had you pegged as a States' rights type.

I would be more along the lines of Chile decentralizing to a regional level first, then let's see how the local goverment level goes a little at a time.

admin wrote:don't get it. this means what for Chile?

The local mayors and goverment offices have about zero real authority in Chile beyond doing silly things like selling advertising space or getting the road in front of their best friend's house paved rather than getting someone else's road paved (the decision to pave a road is made in Santiago, but which one might get decided a bit closer to home).

Point being, the local gov got sold long ago just because of the political structure of Chile. It more or less all starts and ends in Santiago, right down to the guy that gets to hold the shovel to dig the ditch for the mayor's best friend by some "consulting" firm from Santiago.

The most important factor why this has little bearing on Chile: THE LOCAL GOVERMENTS HAVE NO REAL DIRECT TAX REVENUE!!!!!

So they need to get a lot more down the road to decentralizing the country before this means anything in Chile. A lot more.

Excellent. Sounds like Chile has a built-in immunity to Agenda21 and ECLEI. The power of no power!

This is quite ironic when you consider that local government in the US is traditionally very strong. Yet, I believe it is illegal (unconstitutional) for state and local governments to enter into treaties with foreign entities like ECLEI (and indeed under threat of legal action, some cities have cut ties with ECLEI). Nonetheless, there are dozens of counties and cities cut and pasting Agenda21 documents wholesale into local zoning and planning documents (with pseudonyms like "smart" growth) and paying dues to ECLEI whose consultants coordinate Agenda21 plans at the state and federal level.

The final irony being that this bankster NWO inspired creation is supported wholeheartedly by environmentalists and leftists. They are executing local and regional power in defiance of federal law (though not federal bureaucrats and pols on both sides who love Agenda21). They are therefore for "states rights" which of course is anathema to anyone to the left of the Repugincant Party since the '60s.

So complain all you want about confusing Chile, but the toilet just flushes in the opposite direction in the northern hemisphere.

For me, notch one up for Chile if Agenda21 and ECLEI are unable to gain a foot hold locally... Though I am sure that ECLEI will be all over the federales in Santiago.

yes, there is tax revenue through property taxes for local towns, but it is pretty trivial and they really do not control the rates. They do get to set the expansions of what is zoned urban, but that is about it. Perhaps car registrations and such are controlled locally. Also why cities really nail you on parking, because they do control that. The big money in Chile is the IVA sales tax and they really have no control over that. It is not like a local city gets to jack up property taxes or implement a local sales tax, and so on. Think about all those little towns in rural areas of Chile where most of the land is property tax exempt or pays little to nothing if they do pay tax.

A family friend in the States a couple of years ago tried to give me a 5 acre piece of wooded property, and I declined it simply because the property tax would outstrip the value of the property pretty fast. By contrast I pay like perhaps $200 a year total on all the properties I own in Chile. One is completely exempt. Not going to pave a lot of roads with that.

Here in frutillar the big to do was the advertising along the lake. Seems the Mayor sold the rights to some company for like 5 years at around 20 million pesos and some sort of fuzzy swap for a van or something. An outside firm had determined that the real value was around 60 million pesos.

The company with rights, has resold the advertising space to the likes of Claro and Jumbo (no jumbo in Frutillar by the way). So last summer we were all treated to a really frigen ugly claro banners all along the beach between the tourist and the view. It is not even Claro's market. Foreign tourist here for a day and people with money going to the theater. They all have contracts with better cell phone providers.

On the flip side, he padded the local vote by getting government money, building houses, then promptly moving in a bunch of criminals from Santiago to rape and pillage the town. He is not from here, but somehow managed to win the local election with the highest percentage of any mayor in the south. Hell, if he gave me a house and moved me to Frutillar, I would vote for him too.

Freedom advocates? Naw, just another 'libertarian' cult engaged in the dissemination of misinformation to justify the rape, pillage, and plunder of the environment.