Chile Forum

DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS: NOV 4th, 2011

We have been in contact with the Minister of Interior in regards to the overhaul of the current Chilean Immigration Law. The Minister of Interior has directly requested the help of the Chile Forum in providing input and recommendations on reforms to the new immigration law, with a focus on increasing investment in Chile.

This process is just getting started, and they are in the study and drafting phase. So, this is your big chance to get our input in to what we would change in the immigration law.

There are two seperate issues we have been asked to deal with.

One is directly in relation to the immigration law and the process of applying for residency. How would you modify the law and / or process of immigration to make it better?

The second is the bigger issue of being an immigrant to Chile. What were the problems you encountered as an immigrant (directly related to your immigration status), that might be addressed by changes to the law?

For example, it seems the banking issue would fall under the second, but it is looking difficult to solve under a law change as they are private institutions. Perhaps another might be foreigners being left for months without an ID and little more than receipt from the mail to prove they applied. This might be something solvable directly in the immigration law. However, your neighbor not liking gringos, not really something that could be solved here (talk nicer to him).

We are looking to start with bite size chunk format using the following template:

Heading with either: Immigration Law Modification or Immigrant Problem living or investing in Chile.

1. One line with your problem, as briefly as possible that you encountered in regards to immigration in Chile.
Problem:
2. One line proposed solution (if you do not have one, just post "none").
Solution:

Optional, but potentially very helpful, is to please state your current immigration status (e.g. Naturalized Citizen, Full resident, Temporary Visa, Tourist), and the visa / method you used to apply for residency (Retirement and periodic income, investor visa, spouse/relative, subject to contract, etc). Also, for how long have you been in Chile.

After you can go in to longer explanation of what the problem is, how you would solve it, if you so feel the need to comment more on it.

This time, I ask that everyone stay on topic, and I will enforce it (that will be a first I am sure for the forum. Don't panic, I think the server will handle it).

Until what date can we provide input?

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Immigration Law Modification: Income TRV

Problem: Income TRV requirements when you don't have a regular "income."
Solution: Need to become more flexible and not focus on INCOME but ASSETS taken as a whole and even exclusively. Compare the US expats relying primarily on SS who have lost significant inside of Chile purchasing power in the past 10 years vs. someone who preserved their purchasing power and even increased their net but still don't have a monthly check or auto deposit to show.
Current immigration status: Rotating Tourist Visa 10+ years, may apply for TRV under Family TRV app.

I am going to restate that in broader terms

Problem: What counts as "income" or "periodic income" is drawn too narrow.
Solution: Widen what counts as income or assets, and what constitutes proof of that.
For example, if Bill Gates with Billions of dollars in the bank wanted to retire in Chile, assuming he has no other source of periodic investment income, he would have to depend on his U.S. Social Security Check to meet the "periodic" requirement. Simply let people in that have money to support themselves, and make the proof of those assets reasonable.

That is my, first rule of business: Don't make people beg you to take their money, retooled to 'Chile don't make the World beg you to take their money'. Make it easy for people to spend their money.

Andres wrote:Until what date can we provide input?

Until the law is drafted and sent to congress I guess. Likely would not hurt to keep up a running list on the forum of immigration issues anyway.

CORRECTION: NOV 4th is the deadline

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Immigration Law Modification: Amnesty Programs

Problem: Amnesty program discrimination (no developed world persons need apply, only eruvians, olivians, rgentininans, etc.).
Solution: Chilen regs on treating everyone the same should be applicable to the occasionally offered amnesty program.

At the risk of straying from topic, there is a local Oregonian who became a CL citizen via an amnesty program. He has since become a pillar of the local community. I wonder if you can cite a regulation that prevents Oregonians from being considered for such amnesty. Meanwhile I will try to track this guy down for details.

Immigration Law Modification

Problem: Investor Visa

Solution: The rules for the Investor Visa are too confusing. Either eliminate the category, or simplify the rules. No one wants to open a business and have immigration making judgement about the viability of the business that immigration may simply not understand, nor do most new business make money in the first year. It should simply allow for people with money to invest in Chile. If they loose the money or change to a different business, that should be their risk as long as they can continue to support themselves and their family.

patagoniax wrote:

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Immigration Law Modification: Amnesty Programs

Problem: Amnesty program discrimination (no developed world persons need apply, only eruvians, olivians, rgentininans, etc.).
Solution: Chilen regs on treating everyone the same should be applicable to the occasionally offered amnesty program.

At the risk of straying from topic, there is a local Oregonian who became a CL citizen via an amnesty program. He has since become a pillar of the local community. I wonder if you can cite a regulation that prevents Oregonians from being considered for such amnesty. Meanwhile I will try to track this guy down for details.

Well, there is one. Chronically inconsistent application of the existing rules, to the point no one is clear what the rules are. Not even immigration.

admin wrote:

patagoniax wrote:

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Immigration Law Modification: Amnesty Programs

Problem: Amnesty program discrimination (no developed world persons need apply, only eruvians, olivians, rgentininans, etc.).
Solution: Chilen regs on treating everyone the same should be applicable to the occasionally offered amnesty program.

At the risk of straying from topic, there is a local Oregonian who became a CL citizen via an amnesty program. He has since become a pillar of the local community. I wonder if you can cite a regulation that prevents Oregonians from being considered for such amnesty. Meanwhile I will try to track this guy down for details.

Well, there is one. Chronically inconsistent application of the existing rules, to the point no one is clear what the rules are. Not even immigration.

Then perhaps the complaint would be characterised as "inconsistent" nature of the treatment rather than as statutory exclusion. Because if there is a statutory exclusion, we would like to see it, and then determine how some were able to get around the exclusion.

admin wrote:Immigration Law Modification
Problem: Investor Visa

One of my comments is going to address the same visa, but a more fundamental issue:

1. To apply for an temporary residence visa as an Investor, one must submit a proposed intended business, with a lot of detail (e.g. the number of people who will be employed).
In my opinion, it is not reasonable (nor prudent) to decide upon a potentially viable business opportunity and how to pursue it without living in the country. Personally, I would not promise funds for a business if I did not have time to assess markets and other factors which can not be done via documents and statistics alone.

Recommended solution:
Permit an Investor temporary residence visa on the basis of enough assets to support one's self for a year, and a require a specific minimum amount of assets available for investment IF a viable business opportunity is identified within that year.
Then, require a business plan and assets in Chile for a permanent resident visa, which can be applied for BEFORE the end of a year.
Why should an investor be allowed to apply for permanent residence while living in Chile for less than a year? Because, why should an investor invest in a country if they do not have confirmation they can live there?

2. Opening bank accounts.
If I could open a CLP bank account, I would have been willing to send funds to Chile to start investing in it.
As it is now, I am not even certain I can open a bank account as a temporary resident.
How can a temporary resident invest in the country and start a business if they can't even open a bank account?
Opening a bank account (which has no credit facility attached to it) should be a simple process. If a competent investor has difficulty opening a bank account, they will extrapolate such difficulty into an assumption that (almost) everything which should be simple is too difficult. They are likely to refuse to put up with the BS and will therefore go to another country where it is easier to get things done.

According to admin, there is inconsistency in the application/implementation of immigration laws in the visa approval process, depending upon whether an application is made in an embassy/consulate or while in Chile.

Any law reform is likely to be ineffectual if the government can not consistently apply its own immigration laws.
The government should implement basic quality principles to ensure consistent application of the rules.
If they have difficulty doing so, I am happy to offer my services to implement a quality program . . . providing they give me a temporary residence visa to do so.

The investor Visa is dumb, if you are a real investor not some tire kicker looking for a way to hang around Chile for a year. Start the company and give yourself a contract, there it’s done. The Investor Visa in Canada is essentially handled that way, plus you supply a job or two.

I think they need a Snowbird Visa, so the Mendoza wine weekend isn’t needed in January, but not for me I like my Mendoza wine week Snowbird Expats would bring allot of money into the economy for the summer, many will own homes and spend at developed world rates for the 4-6 months they spend in country, maybe give any property owner a 6 month of the year Visa in their passport.

Problem: You have no current carnet while waiting for your visa approval
Solution: Issue a temporary carnet when application is received.