Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby Fishboy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:48 pm

pajaritoblanco wrote:
jessicak1234 wrote:Nobody cares if you are Catholic or not, but the Catholic church pulls a ton of weight in politics here.


A British friend of mine met a Chilena in the UK and they started pololeando. Everything seemed to be perfect until during a visit to her family in Chile he admitted to not believing in God. His future in-laws were shocked, and basically the couple's subsequent break-up was due to the disapproval by her family. I gathered from his account that had he said he was Anglican, Jew or Muslim he would have been accepted, but being openly non-religious - which is quite normal in the UK - was too much for them. I wonder if this is a typical story or my friend just happened to date a girl from an extremely pious family?


I'm a pretty rabid atheist, but my OH's family had no problem with my atheism. I have not had any problems with it here in Chile.
For some reason we were discussing religion and I couldn't help quote Diderot (Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest). Her mum wasn't exactly smiling, but her dad was completely in agreement. That said, we all go off to mass every now and then as a family member plays in the orchestra and we go in support. Papa and I don't join in the service, but we have a great time people watching!
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby valpo dreams » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:31 am

liberties vs legalities vs lifestyles

1 - while in valpo in 2010 we went to a stripper bar with the rest of the navy crew we were with. interestingly enough the ... <ahem> ... exotic dancers had no problems entertaining the male sailors in the club, but would not go anywhere near the lesbian female sailors in the club - call me naive, but a peso is a peso, but why was this?

2 - read the minefields posts, but didn't quite get the locations of said minefields? (only in the south?)

3 - in sept 2010 in valpo there was some kind of riot in which the police used tear gas which disappated throughout the city for a good 36 hours afterwards - is that the typical intervention?

4 - I spent 3 Sundays in Valpo and yet failed to hear any church bells toll as is typical of countries of pious beliefs - I also tried to enter one church on a Sunday out of curiosity and found the main doors locked

5 - "big brother" reads most if not all emails world wide - trust me, I think the computer systems in "cold mountain" are working over time - no matter what country you live in.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby patagoniax » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:20 am

valpo dreams wrote:liberties vs legalities vs lifestyles


2 - read the minefields posts, but didn't quite get the locations of said minefields? (only in the south?)


I don't think that "minefields" has much to do with the idea of "personal freedom in Chile." Perhaps you'd like to elaborate.
Last edited by patagoniax on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby FrankPintor » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm

Px, man, I know you want to make a point but the mumpsimus exhibited by this random individual is hardly worth the effort. I suspect that even point 1. ranks orders of magnitude lower than the issues you (or I) wish to address.

ValPo Dreamz, on the assumption that you haven't understood "mumpsimus" or indeed understood the context or definition: duh,like, not absolutely everything is on sale even everywhere in Chile. You tried to kick the tyres and missed. Shucks. When you get to your feet, think... and try again.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby Afterburner » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:44 pm

FrankPintor wrote:Px, man, I know you want to make a point but the mumpsimus exhibited by this random individual is hardly worth the effort. I suspect that even point 1. ranks orders of magnitude lower than the issues you (or I) wish to address.

ValPo Dreamz, on the assumption that you haven't understood "mumpsimus" or indeed understood the context or definition: duh,like, not absolutely everything is on sale even everywhere in Chile. You tried to kick the tyres and missed. Shucks. When you get to your feet, think... and try again.


Yeah, back on the thread's general subject:

If complete economic freedom and absence of government is a cure-all, partial economic freedom and limited government should be a cure-some. At the turn of the 20th century, business could do what it wanted-- and it did. The result was robber barons, monopolistic gouging, management thugs attacking union organizers, filth in our food, a punishing business cycle, slavery and racial oppression, starvation among the elderly, gunboat diplomacy in support of business interests...

Or take Russia in the decade after the fall of Communism, as advised by free-market absolutists like Jeffrey Sachs. Russian GDP declined 50% in five years. The elite grabbed the assets they could and shuffled them out of Russia so fast that IMF loans couldn't compensate. In 1994 alone, 600 businessmen, journalists, and politicians were murdered by gangsters. Russia lacked a working road system, a banking system, anti-monopoly regulation, effective law enforcement, or any sort of safety net for the elderly and the jobless. Inflation reached 2250% in 1992. Central government authority effectively disappeared in many regions.


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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby Afterburner » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:19 am

valpo dreams wrote:liberties vs legalities vs lifestyles

1 - while in valpo in 2010 we went to a stripper bar with the rest of the navy crew we were with. interestingly enough the ... <ahem> ... exotic dancers had no problems entertaining the male sailors in the club, but would not go anywhere near the lesbian female sailors in the club - call me naive, but a peso is a peso, but why was this?


Here we have a snapshot of the way our dazzlingly modern and 'right on' moral values are culturally exported from our glorious Western civilisation.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby Afterburner » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:25 am

Maybe eventually through constant direct exposure, or by means of the ongoing process of cultural imperialism, the last residue of any understanding of the biological and psychological asymmetrical complementarity that exists between men and women and defines our human state, and which has been commonly and instinctively understood as a generic norm by almost all cultures and throughout all history, will be wiped clean from those girls' minds.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby patagoniax » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:54 am

Afterburner wrote:Maybe eventually through constant direct exposure, or by means of the ongoing process of cultural imperialism, the last residue of any understanding of the biological and psychological asymmetrical complementarity that exists between men and women and defines our human state, and which has been commonly and instinctively understood as a generic norm by almost all cultures and throughout all history, will be wiped clean from those girls' minds.


Or maybe they'll just stay drunk and continue to work as chilean bar girls have for eternity, until they become elected to the national congress.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby seawolf180 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:43 pm

One unfortunate lack of personal freedom some discover here is in regard to inheritance. You have no choice, half of your (Chilean) property goes to your spouse, the rest is split between your children.
At least there is now a divorce law. Some years ago, you might have "separado" with your spuse, and then if you died 20 odd years later said spouse would still get half.
The point is you still don't have controll over your financial legacy...and that really sucks.
And I believe the death tax is 25% on assets over $us1,000,000.
Some may want to check things like this out before comitting to certain things here.
a lot of people want to relocate here because the US is becoming a "police state". Chile is NOT a libertarian wonderland.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby patagoniax » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:51 pm

seawolf180 wrote:One unfortunate lack of personal freedom some discover here is in regard to inheritance. You have no choice, half of your (Chilean) property goes to your spouse, the rest is split between your children.
At least there is now a divorce law. Some years ago, you might have "separado" with your spuse, and then if you died 20 odd years later said spouse would still get half.
The point is you still don't have controll over your financial legacy...and that really sucks.


Only if you follow the intent of the inheritance laws. Chileans have figured out how get around the inheritance problems, to conceal ownership of their real estate and other assets fairly well, in ways that gringos can only admire. That includes ways to pass on what might otherwise be constrained inheritance properties, to whomever they might choose. Won't discuss openly here. Admin can probably offer guidance privately and professionally under client privilege. You didn't read about it here.
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby jehturner » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:10 pm

Interesting. Yep, I never bothered to make a will because of this, but with the prospect of children looming I'll have to get off my behind. On paper I own all our joint assets & don't want the wife jointly "inheriting" what's really hers if something happens. Actually, I think I am going to contact Admin...
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Re: Personal Freedom in Chile

Postby Afterburner » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:41 pm

patagoniax wrote:Or maybe they'll just stay drunk and continue to work as chilean bar girls have for eternity, until they become elected to the national congress.


Elected? Sounds like Italy.
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