Chile Forum

I know this post is super old, but I still want to comment to your biased post.

First, why do Chileans need to adapt to your way of living? Is like saying Americans are wrong for requesting immigrants to speak English. If you don't like it GET OUT!

Second, why the rush to become like the US? So we can be like the dumb Americans who treat dogs like kids; buying the dogs clothes, letting them come in the house, brushing their teeth, taking them to get their nails done, groomed, and the worse of all, letting them sleep with their human companion? Give me a break dude, it's an animal, it was an animal 5000 years ago, still an animal today.

Let's be like the Americans and contol the animal population, then we can eventually control the human population, just like them!

You know, I generally try to be polite but this was a rather asinine comment.

dxclaudio wrote:First, why do Chileans need to adapt to your way of living? Is like saying Americans are wrong for requesting immigrants to speak English. If you don't like it GET OUT!

It's an expat forum, Sunshine. That's where you normally find foreigners, with our crazy, hippy, tree hugging ideas like watching dogs starving in the streets being a bad thing. If you don't like it, DON'T READ.

dxclaudio wrote:Second, why the rush to become like the US? So we can be like the dumb Americans who treat dogs like kids; buying the dogs clothes, letting them come in the house, brushing their teeth, taking them to get their nails done, groomed, and the worse of all, letting them sleep with their human companion? Give me a break dude, it's an animal, it was an animal 5000 years ago, still an animal today.

I'm sorry but do you live in Chile? And if you do, do you ever look around? Because for every 100 people who are happy to ignore the dogs here entirely or treat the family pet like an outdoor plant, feeding and watering it when they remember, there are PLENTY of Chileans who treat their dogs like babies. Clothing them, carrying them around instead of walking them on a leash while letting their actual children run loose and annoy the rest of the populace. At least the dogs are better behaved. I'll take a friendly street dog over some brat who's parents allow them to run around crying and disrupting other people any day.

You want to accuse Chileans of adopting American ways? Perhaps you should concern yourself with how their children are being raised. I met one hell of a lot of brats when I worked as a Nanny in the US and from what I can see, the Chilean versions aren't any better. Certainly different from the way my very Chilean Mother raised myself. The new generation of parents are still children themselves from the looks of it and are happy to raise their kids via American television. Perhaps you should take umbrage at that instead.

And while you're contemplating that, instead of criticizing people who seek to improve the plight of homeless animals, NOT because they want to adopt American ways, but because they were raised with an ingrained respect for both human AND animal life and believe we all deserve a shot at health and happiness, regardless of species or geography, perhaps you might consider that ameliorating a sad animal situation can only help a society improve. As a Chilean, I want nothing more than to see our society and culture rise above that traditional South American cliche. Chileans are more than the complacency and superstition that has allowed the animal problem to perpetuate uncurbed for this long.

No one is saying that all Chileans should begin to treat their animals as their children the way some do here. If you want to, go for it, that's your choice. Most of us would settle for seeing the happy medium of responsible pet ownership; spaying/neutering your own pet and not allowing them to roam wild. Some community involvement and acknowledging responsibility for the strays in your area would be ideal. Chances are that dog you or your neighbor refuses to neuter because he doesn't want his dog to become gay has impregnated his fair share of stray dogs who don't have a home to escape to once they're in heat.

Ghandi once said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." I'd like to see the day when Chileans understand why they should strive for greatness as a nation instead of accepting mediocrity.

This WILL spark anger in many, but here it goes anyways...

In Chile people might not treat dog as good as other nationalities do, but at least here all type of abortions are still ilegal. Who are better people then? Dog-lovers-but-baby-ignoring... or... dog-ignoring-but-baby-loving.

KBS

audeo13... re Georgia - she's a keeper, for sure!

Here's a good question - all may consider?

How ENLIGHTENED ARE YOU?

IF....
If you can live without caffeine,
If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining,
If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any time,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can ignore a friend's limited education and never correct him or her,
If you can resist treating a rich friend better than a poor friend,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can honestly say that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed, color, religion, gender preference, or politics,
--Then you have almost reached the same level of spiritual development as your dog!

So last week, this little stray charged out of the brush at the entrance to Mahuida Park, and followed me on a 4 hour climb, over 1 mile vertical elevation gain, to the top of Cerro la Cruz. Now I know he probably enjoyed flushing the quail and rabbits along our route, but more than likely his keen nose told him I carried a delicious chicken sandwich in my backpack. Why that poor bugger spent all day and all his meager calories climbing mountains with me, I'll never know. And of course, I felt obliged to share the chicken sandwich at the top. I'd add a photo if I knew how.

kbs_mom wrote:In Chile people might not treat dog as good as other nationalities do, but at least here all type of abortions are still ilegal. Who are better people then? Dog-lovers-but-baby-ignoring... or... dog-ignoring-but-baby-loving.

KBS

Bit silly don't you think to break the subject of mistreating animals down to a question of yes or no abortion of babies

And do you really think that having abortion illegal is the same as to being a civilized nation?

Oh, before you start I am not in favour of an all out free abortion, only in favour of giving children or women who were raped (some even by family members) a choice of what to do. Who are we to judge such a difficult question?

Last week, I just spent time in Santiago with a miserable little dog (toy poodle) who wanted to sleep in my bed, roll on the ground outside, then roll around and lay on the pillow. I tried to convince it to stop with some table scraps and I was told I was the bad guy. The apartment dog had to be walked 3 times a day and on the leash would pull and lunge at passers by. The dog would lunge at large stray dogs while snapping and growling and would take on any large dog, which of course put the dog walker danger because a fight between a toy poodle and a 60 lb dog doesn't go un noticed! Somone is going to have to stick their hands in there and break it up! The silly dog was nothing but a problem to me, but the family I was visiting thought it was just fine and the Gringo was the problem!

The dog's owner does feed strays, and even takes them to the Vet if one is injured. I encountered some VERY fierce looking strays. Some looked dangerous, with heads large enough to cause serious people injury.

The sidewalks of Santiago, Nunoa, are littered with animal waste both solid and liquid. The city does clean in the early morning but they only sweep, with an inefficient looking broom. Nothing is washed. The waste returns by noon.

The Chilean family couldn't understand why I did not want this little guy in my bed or even walking around in the kitchen.

I guess I'm going to have to make some adjustments and get my shots! Holly crap! (to coin a phrase).

Ultimately it is better that the Chilean government / people let the stray dogs be stray dogs, because it would be hard to imagine a "solution" to this problem that doesn't involving rounding them up, and killing them--humane indeed (USA!!!!) Why don't they humanely let them live the life of a street dog (Lady and the Tramp, anyone?). If you assign value to the life of a stray dog, you should stop complaining about how they shit everywhere, and give them some food once in awhile.

Now, talking about the sterilization of large portions of the stray animal population, that might be good, but still, I think those dogs value their balls and vaginas, not just their lives. However, I do think everybody talking about Spay / Neuter education is right on (but do it when their young for gods sake-ex. some dude with a scalpel cut off the tip of my penis when I was a baby--I hold no grudges. If some dude tried to do the same today, the grudge doesn't end till he is dead), ditto with changing an attitude of neglect and indifference. And it would be nice if we could get all street dogs rehabilitated and into homes, but also impossible. I say let street dogs be street dogs (although even street dogs would probably appreciate shots and vaccines, herro NGO's).

p.s. It's ironic that any human would complain about a dog's mess. So they shit on your sidewalk, we shit on the whole world (sometimes we just put it all in one place and pretend like it doesn't exist).

Hmmmm. Interesting comments on this subject. I must say that I personally don't embrace this 'live and let live' attitude that permeates the culture here with regards to animals...dogs in particular. It is truly an outdated, irresponsible concept. Spaying/neutering is the only way to curb the stray population. I am NOT for rounding them all up and exterminating them. If we had some mobile vet units around the country that could do the spay/neuter program, cull out the really sick dogs that cannot be made well and euthanize them, and vaccinate all the dogs eventually the strays would cease to be a problem. The comment about the male dogs 'wanting their balls' and the female dogs 'wanting their vagina's'...give me a break. All I see are helpless females being chased by packs of males and bred to death. Aging females with huge teats full of milk dragging the ground and many with severe mastitis. That is NO way for a dog to live. And we all know that many, if not most, of the puppies she whelps will die from being run over, attacked by other dogs, starvation. Again, no way to live IMO.

A young dog showed up at our door the day after the earthquake. We couldn't find her owner, if she ever had one. So we adopted her. We immediately took her to the vet for a check-up. Treated her for fleas (she was, of course infested...as are all strays), treated her for parasites, got her vaccinated and had her spayed. She is a now a beautiful young dog and I shudder to think what her chances would have been had we not taken her in. She would already be pregnant (as she is now 10 mths.) and would be thin and infested with everything under the sun...so much for that 'live and let live' mindset. We hope to give her a good life with us. Yes, she is indoors...we don't let her run the streets to bother other people, rip up garbage and piss/poop everywhere. We walk her AND clean up the poop as well. And NO she doesn't sleep with us, she is not allowed up on the furniture, we are training her to behave...and we do NOT allow her to bark incessantly(unlike nearly every dog here that I have encountered). She has a kennel that we place her in at night and when we are away from the house. Humane, caring dog ownership. Need I say more?

Chuck J 3.0 wrote:Hola la gringita!

, 'mierda de perro no es cultura.' .

You are not alone, but outnumbered by the cultural cave people. There are a handful of educated chilenos who recognize that the country has failed to achieve civilised-nation status in part because of its lack of cultural and social responsibility in the area of perros vagos. Likewise the health departments recognize the hazards. But just as the trend in Chilean child-raising has largely dispensed with discipline, so too has Chilean society become increasingly soft-headed in dealing with the damage and filth related to wild street dogs. And the stinking carcasses of dead dogs along the highways sometimes looks like an experiment with weapons of mass destruction.

It used to be, back in the seventies, that the sidewalks and parks were not so rudely decorated with pastel de perro. One could walk the city streets, or ride a bicycle or motorcycle in any city in Chile, without fear of being attached by stray dogs. No longer. I see people attacked on the streets by semi-wild dogs not only in Valpo but in other cities. Not long ago I was riding in Punta Arenas and a pack of dogs attacked me, shredding my rain-suit. Yet another reason to carry Mace and a big stick.

Where I live in Patagonia the wild dogs kill everything in sight, including the Patagonian geese and other wild animals.

A few pro forma government exercises have been taken in Chilean towns and cities to sterilize strays. It's an underfunded, half-hearted exercise at best. Citizens are now quietly poisoning the loose dogs. Between the graffiti, the drugged lolos, the masses of unprocessed recidivists, and the wild street dogs, Chilean cities and towns have lost not only their earlier charm, but also the attempt to become civilised.

Oh come now. Surely the compassionate big-hearted rule of La Conceracion cannot in any way be inferior to the Bad People Who Ruled Before. At this point, even my leftish Chilean friends (well, the honest ones anyway) admit that perhaps the more recent approach (say, the last 20 years or so) towards crime, perros vagos, etc might have been a bit too caring and compassionate. But look at the bright side - Transantiago is a great example of efficient & caring central planning (unlike all of the private businesses such as collectivos destroyed by the same), and the socialists were not at all corrupt, unlike that Scoundrel Who Ruled Before.

OK, I feel better now, happens with a good rant. Could be I'm a little light on sleep due to lots of barking throughout the night.

John Hyre, Arf! Grrrr!

JHyre wrote:Oh come now. Surely the compassionate big-hearted rule of La Conceracion [sic] cannot in any way be inferior to the Bad People Who Ruled Before.

Chilean Marxism destroyed private property and the economy. Chilean military rule destroyed persons and foo-foo university curricula. Post-1990 Chilean Socialism and the return of foo-foo university curricula destroyed the Chilean culture.