Chile Forum

I am considering relocating to South America. I currently live in Panama and have been so for the last 4 years. I was born and raised in the mid western United States where a handshake was as good as a contract and you never needed to lock your doors so that will give you a point of reference about me. I am very tolerant, patient and adaptable to new environments. However after 4 years of living and doing business in what I consider to be a very hostile environment I have reached a breaking point and have decided to leave Panama. The problem is the local culture does not appeal to me at all even though I tried my best to adapt to it. I am fed up with the dishonesty, constantly being lied to and taken advantage of, extortion attempts, intimidation and just a plain I don't care attitude amongst the local people. I find living here incredibly unappealing mainly because of the people. I have never visited South America and have a simple question. Are people the same there as in Central America? What are the similarities and what are the differences?

Vina del Mar sounds very appealing to me and worth a visit. I am an honest and respectful person with an open mind and an open heart. I want to live amongst like minded and respectful people and not in a den of thieves like I am now. I know there are bad people everywhere. I hear that line all the time when I converse with fellow expats living in Panama. But the magnitude of bad people where I live now is much greater than what I am willing to bear.

Your candid responses are appreciated.

Then you need to visit Valdivia in southern Chile.

You will hit some of the same problems where, but most are out of lazyness and not corruption

Since I am semi-retired I do not mind the lazy manana syndrome. I am a very patient person. But what I do mind is being lied to and ripped off all the time. I mean all the time. My neighbors are feeding off me now. They blame my dogs for this and that problem and demand money from me but they have no proof. My dogs are strays that I adopted and give them a caring home and sometimes I let them out of my yard. But it gives my neighbors a chance to blame them for problems and squeeze money out of me. They threaten me to call the police. I am tired of paying them off. I can't easily just pack up and go because I own my home. People around me are not ethical. Some are, but many are not. My fellow expats blame me for not adapting to the local culture as if it is my fault. I don't understand how it is my fault? I just want out of here. And please don't even ask about me doing business here. Very corrupt at all levels.

Gordo wrote: But the magnitude of bad people where I live now is much greater than what I am willing to bear.
.

Panamá is Letrinamerica. Chile is Letrinamerica. You seem to be surprised by how things turned out. One should not go to Letrinamerica expecting to find Switzerland or Squamish. You come to Letrinamerica because you like to see steel bars on the first-floor windows, petty thievery as a sacrament of the populacho, packs of dogs loose on dusty streets, and comparatively cheap alcohol.

Many of the same issues you reported in Panamá would be waiting for you in Chile, except in Panamá they tend to kill one another with a slightly greater frequency, the food is arguably better, and the moths are somewhat larger.

LOL, Px stop scaring everyone out of Chile, you can't have the country just for yourself.

To th OP. I don't think you will find that level of dishonesty in Chile as you have experienced in Panama. Then again, unless your setting yourself up for it, common sense goes along way. Vina del Mar is a great place to live. People are friendly, I have never had a problem with any neighbours, and they have always been very helpful and polite. There is a large expat community as well and tonnes of great things to do in the city.

Will some people try to take advantage of you? I'm sure they will. They have tried to scam me once or twice in the past but a little common sense with logical thinking goes along way. (the con artists are not that smart over here) Then again, if you don't know the system or customs you may be a little bit more at risk, but I can hardly foresee this being a major problem. Certainly not at the level you describe in Panama.

As you mentioned, if you have no problem with the manana attitude, you should fit in just fine. Business in Chile is another animal all together. It's not impossible, but will be a challenge unless you know the laws and understand the customs. But by far, not a impossible or horrible endeavour. Like business anywhere, knowing your market is crucial. Learn the laws and hire a good lawyer should you need. The Admin of this site has his shit together.

Give Vina a try. It's an awesome place to live.

I spent many years in Central America, mostly in Guatemala. Never made it to Panama. Mostly know about it by reputation. Chilean culture is nothing like Central America.

Chile has its own unique set of cultural issues to drive you nuts, but 'the cut your neighbors throat after inviting them over for dinner' mentality of Central America is not something you will find here. Central America was likely one of the more uncivilized and dangerous places I have ever been in the World.

admin wrote: Never made it to Panama. Mostly know about it by reputation.

I worked in Panamá for a time. Translation and site surveys; mostly work related to drug enforcement/interdiction and allowing others to shoot down the bad guys. Flew out of Howard AFB on C-130H, mostly Guard aircraft, to sites in Colombia. In fact I was at Albrook AFS as early as the seventies, long before it was given up by the US, along with the rest of the Zone. I still have some very nice molas from the Cuna Indians who used to sell their real handmade items near the Commissary, before their stuff turned to schlock. And no I did not participate in the events of 1989.

Chile today is not so very different in terms of social interaction, though obviously it depends where you are and who your neighbours are and what you are made of. People who have never lived there can speculate all day. I got things done in Panamá with about the same degree of difficulty as we see today in Chile.

Here is an old foto I took out by the Miraflores locks along the canal. This is a scanned 35mm slide, from before the days of digital cameras.

Thank you for your responses. What I read on the internet is that South America has a more European influence versus Latin. For example Colombia is adjacent to Panama and the people there are entirely different, more dignified and proper. I am not saying all Panamanians are bad but many I have encountered are. I would prefer a smaller percentage of people are bad. I've been to Costa Rica and Guatemala and in both places taxi drivers tried to rip me off. However after staying for a while I felt comfortable with the locals in both places. The people were kind and good to me. I got a much better vibe in both those countries. I chose Panama because it was promoted as a leader of Central America and after living here I think there are too many inherent problems and it does not deserve that status.

I much prefer a European influence but without the high price of Europe. Can I find that in Chile?

To the previous poster, yes I know Central America is Latin but I needed to live there for a while to gauge whether or not I like it. I came to the conclusion that I will not tolerate the dirtiness, the systemic dishonesty and the I don't care attitude. However I don't mind bars on windows or razor wire fences at all. I got used to seeing them all over.

Let me make this clear that I have been roughing it for the past few years living on the cheap so none of the third world aspect bothers me. I am just sick of being surrounded by dishonest people.

patagoniax wrote:

admin wrote: Never made it to Panama. Mostly know about it by reputation.

I worked in Panamá for a time. Translation and site surveys; mostly work related to drug enforcement/interdiction and allowing others to shoot down the bad guys. Flew out of Howard AFB on C-130H, mostly Guard aircraft, to sites in Colombia. In fact I was at Albrook AFS as early as the seventies, long before it was given up by the US, along with the rest of the Zone. I still have some very nice molas from the Cuna Indians who used to sell their real handmade items near the Commissary, before their stuff turned to schlock. And no I did not participate in the events of 1989.

Chile today is not so very different in terms of social interaction, though obviously it depends where you are and who your neighbours are and what you are made of. People who have never lived there can speculate all day. I got things done in Panamá with about the same degree of difficulty as we see today in Chile.

Here is an old foto I took out by the Miraflores locks along the canal. This is a scanned 35mm slide, from before the days of digital cameras.

Oops. Let me clarify that Albrook, Clayton and reverted zones are all still beautiful although not as well kept after the transition. I love those places because they are first world essentially little USA. But I don't live there due to the heat and humidity. I don't consider reverted zones as the real Panama because they have U.S. influence. So when I refer to Panama I mean true Panamanians and not zonians or those involved with the canal.

admin wrote:I spent many years in Central America, mostly in Guatemala. Never made it to Panama. Mostly know about it by reputation. Chilean culture is nothing like Central America.

Chile has its own unique set of cultural issues to drive you nuts, but 'the cut your neighbors throat after inviting them over for dinner' mentality of Central America is not something you will find here. Central America was likely one of the more uncivilized and dangerous places I have ever been in the World.

Thanks for your response. That's what I guessed might be the case. It's not nearly as bad as you describe because we all do get along and it is civil. However I get this seedy vibe that they are BS'ing me all the time. My instincts keep setting off bells and whistles. I hate that. I am not the only one. My friend down the road says the same thing. However when I go to Costa Rica or Guatemala my alarms don't go off much at all. It's strange because maybe it's just me or maybe I am right on the money. I trust my instincts and they are almost always right.

Gordo wrote:Thank you for your responses. What I read on the internet is that South America has a more European influence versus Latin.

Not a meaningful observation. "Latin" is European. Perhaps you meant parts of South America might be similar to parts of Europe that are not so much influenced by the cultures of the Spanish, Portuguese, and Italians? There is a reason that their languages, to say nothing of their cultures, grew out of what came to be called Vulgar Latin.

Gordo wrote: For example Colombia is adjacent to Panama and the people there are entirely different

Urban upper middle class Colombians do tend to be more "European" in some ways than their Panamanian counterparts. Perhaps more so than the Chileans as well. Lower middle class Colombians are not unlike Chileans of the same economic level, in some ways.

Gordo wrote: I am just sick of being surrounded by dishonest people

If you come to Chile carrying a lantern and seeking consistent honesty in the populace, you are wasting your time.