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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby patagoniax » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:47 am

greg~judy wrote:perhaps p~x may go attend a few of these riots...


Fortunately there are some in Chile who still aspire to a level of civilisation incrementally more advanced than common street melee and the primitive (though arguably artistic) foolishness of mobs.

I think the costs of the mob actions and demonstrations so far this year, according to the local press, are about 600,000,000 CLP for just Santiago, not counting losses to private parties and the damages and related costs associated with the school takeovers. Municipalities are loosing something like 200 million CLP in school subsidies every day due to occupation by students, plus the costs of fires and other damages taking place during the occupations. So there are reasons why some citizens might not support this sort of self-destructive behaviour, just as there are reasons that the Left continues to encourage and exacerbate these losses.

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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby seawolf180 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:44 pm

Spang wrote:
patagoniax wrote:
john wrote:nwdiver,

Oh, I get the "seawater" just fine but it doesn't excuse his insensitivity. :roll:


It isn't "insensitivity " so much as a well developed and widely appreciated sense of humour, which the forum needs in greater measure. But if it's vacuous sensitivity you're seeking, there are kinder, gentler, and emptier places to visit.


It's still in very poor taste considering Chile's history.


What it is; is easy to push your humorless, politically correct, button. Regardless of the arguments for or against different interogation techniques.
I guess I should apologize for trolling to idealists.... NAH, whine away.
And keep an eye on your car.
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby patagoniax » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:53 pm

seawolf180 wrote:
And keep an eye on your car.


He doesn't live here. He's in the Peoples Republic of California.
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby seawolf180 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:18 pm

I used to be proud to say the same. Then the place became regulated, taxed and indebted to the point of suffocation by IDEALISTS. In California you can't breath without someone of real or presumed authority complaining, sighting, or sueing you for some insensitivity.
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby john » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:29 am

Which is the reason for keeping one's eye on his or her car. :wink:

It's going to be so hard to give up the People's Republic of California. :lol:
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby California South » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:17 am

patagoniax wrote:.
As everybody seems to know, coca leaf is really the second most significant product of Bolivia.

The first place goes to stolen cars.

It's no surprise that many Argentine and Chilean rental companies won't allow a vehicle to be taken into Bolivia, since the probability of it being stolen there is so great. Likewise a vehicle stolen in Chile can easily end up in the hands of some cholo in Bolivia.

Now, Bolivia is showing the world its responsible and civilised face, and the true black heart of both its national character and present leadership, by making it easier for Bolivian car thieves and their customers to "legalise" their ill-gotten vehicles.

Yesterday the Bolivian congress approved a bill which provides an "amnesty" for tens of thousands of stolen vehicles that are now (or soon will be) inside Bolivia. The bill was sponsored by none other than Bolivian president Evo Morales (" Morales" being sometimes translated as "morals" - though not in the Bolivian dialects). The legalisation of stolen foreign property for the lower classes of Bolivia was reportedly part of Evo's social programme.

Stolen vehicles famously end up in the hands of Bolivian officials, including a former chief of police, Ciro Farfán. What is interesting about this new measure is that there is no effective provision to identify and return the stolen vehicles that belong to persons outside of Bolivia. Evo takes great pride in this new law, knowing he is the hero of every Bolivian thief.

Transportation organisations inside Bolivia indicated that the amnesty could affect up to 100,000 vehicles that were stolen inside Bolivia itself as well as those stolen in Argentina, Chile, Brazil, and other countries, and smuggled into Bolivia.

Welcome to Bolivia, where officially condoning felony theft is just another social programme.


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Similar to our experience in Maracaibo in the 90's. Felony theft was enshrined as a social program there also, and blatantly condoned by all authorities (who were as corrupt as can be, I can attest). A thriving car theft industry, where most ended up in Columbia, sometimes with the drivers included. One of our favorite memories is the government answer to the people asking for help to stop the thieves: "we cannot stop them - this is how they make a living".
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby patagoniax » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:02 pm

.
We need Cholivia. Really. For the amusement.

News item today: "Evo Morales asks the Navy to prepare for Bolivia's return to the sea"

Whilst celebrating the 185 years of the "Bolivian Navy."

http://www.emol.com/noticias/internacio ... l-mar.html



Evo Morales pide a la Armada estar preparada para el retorno de Bolivia al mar



LA PAZ.- El presidente de Bolivia, Evo Morales, hizo un llamado este lunes a la Armada de su país a estar preparada, entrenada y organizada para cuando vuelvan a tener salida al mar con soberanía, durante el aniversario de los 185 años de la creación de la Fuerza Naval Boliviana, donde además dijo que el retorno al mar ocurrirá "en cualquier momento".

--

Cholivian "Armada" flagship and rear-admiral

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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby admin » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:51 am

Hopefully they will get them some music lessons. last time I heard the Bolivian navy play, they could not carry a tune (I think the band is the biggest element).

A few months back, my wife was invited to do a presentation at a government conference on the Bolivia claim made up of attorneys practicing international law, law professors, and other experts in the field. Her angle in particular was that Chile needs to find out what the other side is up to, do they have a chance, are they serious, and so on. Know your enemy sort of thing. If someone threatens you with a lawsuit, only makes sense to check and see if they are for real. Chile has not been doing that. The government has been going around and around just dismissing them out of hand for generations, rather than bothering to see if there is something to actually be worried about let alone be prepared to deal with it. She turned up that they have retained a heavy hitting French law firm, they have complete national support for going ahead with it that is way beyond simply Morales trying to get some domestic political heat off of him, and they do have a standing to bring a claim in the permanent court of arbitration. Chile did deny them the ocean access promised in the treaty. At least this government seems to be taking it a bit more seriously.
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby patagoniax » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:25 am

admin wrote:..they have retained a heavy hitting French law firm,


No doubt on a par with their heavy-hitting military and heavy-hitting hospitality orientation.
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby greg~judy » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:47 am

Chile did deny them the ocean access promised in the treaty.


so, wtf do they need chile for...?
peru is more than willing to "play ball" re a port facility
:?:

Bolivia has in the past utilized Ilo as a free gate to the ocean for both recreational and trade purposes.

The Peruvian government has granted a 99 year lease to the government of landlocked Bolivia to develop a port facility, in effect allowing Bolivia to claim to be a "Pacific Ocean nation".

Bolivia lost an earlier claim to a portion of Pacific coast after going to war with Chile in the 19th century.


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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby patagoniax » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:54 pm

greg~judy wrote:
Bolivia has in the past utilized Ilo as a free gate to the ocean for both recreational and trade purposes.


Also discussed in January this year in thread here topic5354.html
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Re: bolivia looking to pick a fight

Postby nwdiver » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:06 pm

They have the rails to the sea (the International) but refused to develop the Bolivian side to handle more goods form the Altiplano to Antofagasta. What they want is something they will never get a corridor through Chile to the sea cutting off the far North of Chile from the rest of the country, unless they want the territory ceded by Peru as part of the deal.

After they screwed Nova Power (by way of those flakes in Argentina) over natural gas for their power generators, the Bolivians should be worried about crossing Chilean territory with their gas lines.

They have access to the sea through the Amazon also, but they don’t trust the Bolivians down in the lowlands ;)
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