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Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby greg~judy » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:01 pm

Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit – Analysis

President Obama will touch down in Chile on March 21 to commence the second leg of his Latin American trip. Inevitably, this segment of Obama’s journey will suffer in relative importance by being compared to his earlier visit to Brazil, where he is scheduled to spend two full days as opposed to the shortened one-day agenda that is planned for Chile. This is namely because, as their respective press secretaries will tell you, if asked, the U.S. and Chile already have a strong bond which is rooted in democratic ideals, and a tenacious belief in the rewards of free enterprise. The visit will provide Obama with the platform to use glowing rhetoric to celebrate a hemispheric ally without making too many demands and requests by either side.

Though mutual praise will be a clear message of the visit, it will underscore several other important issues. Chile is currently pursuing expanded energy options to cater to the expected exponential increase in energy consumption in the coming decades. It has already drafted plans—pending President Sebastián Piñera’s approval of the program—of utilizing Patagonia’s rich hydroelectric resources while supplementing it with a coal-fired alternative. Both of these options are receiving domestic criticism, while the third proposition—nuclear energy—is being met with monumental disgruntlement around the world. Especially in the wake of the fearsome impact that the natural disasters have had on Japan’s nuclear reactors—an event to which Chile is also highly vulnerable due to the tectonic nature of its geology. However, the latter of the energy options seems to be the frontrunner, as the international market has welcomed Chile’s bid with sale offers from France and Russia. As this is a market the U.S. considers to be both competitive and economically viable for its own manufacturers, Obama will undoubtedly address the issue during his visit either publically or privately. Whether he will sign a nuclear acquisition agreement—which arguably might be the economic route—or tout U.S. expertise with possible assistance in energy diversification—the environmentalist avenue—might actually turn out to be the highlight of the Santiago stopover.

Despite the appearance that this trip is, in a sense, a reward to Chile for its democratic progress and stability, Obama’s presence is not necessarily universally welcomed by the host country. Protests and demonstrations are being planned in anticipation of the U.S President’s arrival. According to Radio Cadena Agramonet; the National Teachers Association, student groups, and human rights groups are planning to organize themselves on Sunday to vocalize their opposition to the visit. The protesters are rallying against what they consider suffocating U.S intervention in international affairs, the opposition to the presumed signing of the proposed nuclear energy agreement, the continued imprisonment of the Cuban Five, and an objection to what the dissenters consider to be unwarranted spotlighting on Chile being a democratic model. However, despite the sobering presence of the protesters, it is expected that Obama’s visit to Chile will be conducted without disruption and will overwhelmingly receive positive reviews in the press.
“If we want everything to stay as it is,
everything will have to change."

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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby no country for young men » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:32 pm

Obummer.
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby cali_chile48 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:15 pm

the above quoted text has no reference.....not good.

the NTA is protesting Obama's visit to Chile???? WHY??? What is the connection???
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby greg~judy » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:35 pm

cali_chile48 wrote:the above quoted text has no reference.....not good.

the NTA is protesting Obama's visit to Chile???? WHY??? What is the connection???


my dear cali...
in this day and age...
with very efficient search engines...
it is possible to put in any sentence(s)...
and immediately arrive at the source :idea:

http://www.eurasiareview.com/much-ado-about-nothing-obamas-chile-visit-analysis-20032011/

what is "not good" in this situation...?
the fact that the reference does not appear right away
(for some sense of "convenience")
or the fact that anyone cannot find it on their own... :|
“If we want everything to stay as it is,
everything will have to change."

--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby cali_chile48 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:43 pm

what is "not good" is simply the fact that no citation was given. it isn't the responsibility of the reader to seek out the source of quoted material. it is the responsibility of the writer to provide it. any kind of critical analysis requires the ability to consider the source of the information. it helps the reader determine if the information is credible or not. it is also "not good" that the writer seeks to deflect attention from this widely held convention.
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby greg~judy » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:39 pm

cali_chile48 wrote:what is "not good" is simply the fact that no citation was given. it isn't the responsibility of the reader to seek out the source of quoted material. it is the responsibility of the writer to provide it. any kind of critical analysis requires the ability to consider the source of the information. it helps the reader determine if the information is credible or not. it is also "not good" that the writer seeks to deflect attention from this widely held convention.


perhaps we should also offer information about the author...?
About the author:
COHA, or Council on Hemispheric Affairs, was founded in 1975, the Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA), a nonprofit, tax-exempt independent research and information organization, was established to promote the common interests of the hemisphere, raise the visibility of regional affairs and increase the importance of the inter-American relationship, as well as encourage the formulation of rational and constructive U.S. policies towards Latin America.

may we also apologize cali, for any intended misunderstanding here...
but it does allow us to spend a few minutes discussing the more holistic situation
(of sources and authors and responses...)

you see... quite often on this forum and in general...
information may be given that might agree with or may not agree with a readers pov.
but, especially in the 2nd case - and we have seen on many instances...
it sets up any existing biases of a reader to challenge the info, or the source thereof.
how many times have we seen "attacking the messenger" vs. considering the message?

in other situations (this one) it may just be an item of interest... for any/all to consider
and allow a reader to further research on their own recognizance.

so reading the original news release - which succinctly states two facts... (to paraphrase)
1 - not everyone is happy with this state visit -
2 - some will protest - based on the record of US foreign policy...
as well as opposition to recent decisions about nuclear energy

we are not sure about why the "credibility" of this need be questioned?
are not the two facts offered in the article accurate, at face value?
if any want to further question the opinions of the NTA...
...or student groups, and human rights groups...
needn't one go directly to them to seek their motivation...
rather than merely question the reporter of the information?

quite frankly, cali... taking umbrage at this is a "tempest in a teapot"
g~j's intent was merely to draw recognition of two things...
1st - no one else on the forum seemed aware, or interested...
of the fact of this "state visit" - or the issues surrounding it.
2nd - it draws attention to the fact that some groups intend to protest this visit

any further analysis or follow-up will be entirely up to the individual reader
to question the source of these facts - at least to g~j - seemed unnecessary
hence - we did not initially include the url.
but... we did add it, at the expense of approx. 15 seconds of our time - at your request.

to close... we can only offer an opinion and suggestion to all...
we might only hope that any in the RM area might join in the protests...
IF they agree with the two aforementioned facts
1 - not everyone is happy with this visit -
2 - some will protest - based on the record of US foreign policy...
as well as opposition to recent decisions about nuclear energy

...and want to have their voice(s) heard.
:idea:

btw... this explanation took another 20 minutes of g~j's precious time <grin>
but we have lots of "time" - although our good friend Rune may disagree...
and we do not begrudge this use of our time today...
may all be well and happy...
and may some go and protest the Obamination mentioned in the article.
:idea:
“If we want everything to stay as it is,
everything will have to change."

--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby PenquistaDeCorazon » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:46 pm

I agree. There was no need to cite sources as the article stated facts that are patently obvious.
I think this state visit for many Chileans has much more significance than it does to the casual observer. There are still US classified documents with regards to human rights abuses in Chile. I think that morally, there is an obligation on the part of the USA to provide any info that helps get to the bottom of some pretty horrendous crimes. But of course this is wishful thinking.

Here is another take:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... 3300.story

Ghosts of Chile
President Obama has an opportunity to confront the trauma inflicted by Pinochet's regime, and by the United States.
(Illustration by Jonathan Twingley / For The Times)

(Illustration by Jonathan Twingley / For The Times)

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Don't ignore Colombia Don't ignore Colombia

By Ariel Dorfman

March 20, 2011

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When Barack Obama arrives in Chile on Monday for a 24-hour visit, something crucial will be missing from his agenda. There will be succulent seafood, speeches praising Chile's prosperity, bilateral agreements and meetings with the high and mighty. But there are no plans, I am sure, for the president to encounter what has been the defining experience of Chile's recent history, the trauma that the people of this country underwent during the 17 years of Gen. Augusto Pinochet's regime.

And yet, it would not be impossible for Obama to witness a small sample of the grief of Chile. A scant seven blocks from the presidential palace, La Moneda, where he is to be feted by President Sebastián Piñera, 120 researchers are busy all day long compiling a conclusive list of Pinochet's victims so that final amends and compensation can be made. This is the third attempt since the dictatorship ended in 1990 to deal with the massive losses it left behind. Two officially sanctioned commissions had already investigated an enormous number of cases of torture, execution and political imprisonment, but it became apparent as the years went by that countless human rights violations remained to be identified. And the current inquiry has, in fact, received 33,000 additional petitions for redress.

Although Obama would be unable to read any of the confidential reports about these cases, a few minutes spent away from his strict calendar of events, talking to some of the men and women who are carrying out the inquiries, would tell him more about the hidden agony of Chile than a thousand briefing books.

For instance, he could talk to a researcher named Tamara. On Sept. 11, 1973, the day President Salvador Allende was overthrown, her father, one of Allende's bodyguards, was arrested — and never heard from again. I worked at La Moneda at the time of the coup, and my life was saved by a chain of miraculous coincidences. But Tamara's father was not that lucky, nor were several good friends, whose bodies have never been found.

Or Obama could look into the eyes of a lawyer I know, who was abducted one afternoon a few years after the coup and tortured for weeks before being dumped one night on a strange street and then almost immediately rearrested for breaking the curfew. Obama might listen to an anthropologist who had to go into exile for 14 years, losing country, livelihood and language. Her return to Chile was as painful as the original banishment because her children, having grown estranged from the country of their birth, stayed abroad, splitting the family forever.

If Obama prefers places to people, he could acquaint himself with Villa Grimaldi, a former torture house turned into a center for peace, or devote 10 minutes to the Museum of Memory, where exhibits recall the darkest days of Chile's history.

One of the reasons Obama should do everything he can to catch a glimpse, however cursory, of our vast affliction is that the United States, alas, is partly responsible for its existence. Washington aided and abetted the downfall of Allende's democratically elected government and the tyrannical rise of Pinochet. Today, when the revolt in Egypt, among other nations, reminds us of the consequences of propping up brutal regimes, it would be sobering for a president as thoughtful and compassionate as Obama to see a few men and women who have been destroyed by those U.S. policies.

And Chile also offers a cautionary tale of how difficult it is to deal with crimes against humanity — how difficult but also how necessary. In Chile we have learned that if we, as a people, do not face that terrible past and bring its sorrows into the light, if the perpetrators are not punished, we risk corrupting the very soul of our nation.

It is a lesson that Obama and his fellow citizens should also learn. Two years after his inauguration, Guantanamo remains open, and there has been no prosecution of the human rights violations of the George W. Bush administration or an apology tendered to its victims. A U.S. commission modeled on the one established in Santiago might constitute a first step toward a reckoning that, as Chileans are aware, cannot be postponed indefinitely.

Important as this experience might be for Obama, another one could be even more significant. He will be having dinner at the presidential palace where Allende died defending the right of his people to choose their own destiny. Allende is buried in a cemetery not far from where the country's elite will be toasting the friendship between the United States and Chile.

In 1965, during a momentous trip to Chile, Sen. Robert Kennedy stepped outside the tight protocol arranged for him and met miners and university students; he plunged into the country to try to understand it. What if Obama decided to follow Kennedy's example and went off script to do something unprecedented, like visiting Allende's grave? What if Obama simply stood there in silence for one lonely minute? No need to publicly express regret for America's intervention in Chilean affairs or for supporting Pinochet.

That simple gesture in homage to a president who gave his life fighting for democracy and social justice would send a message to Latin America and, indeed, to the whole planet that would be more eloquent than 50 speeches. It would be a signal that perhaps a new era in the U.S. relationship with its neighbors to the south might be feasible, that the bitter past will never again return, nunca, nunca más.
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby patagoniax » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:09 pm

PenquistaDeCorazon wrote:quoting a story:

In 1965, during a momentous trip to Chile, Sen. Robert Kennedy stepped outside the tight protocol arranged for him and met miners and university students; he plunged into the country to try to understand it. What if Obama decided to follow Kennedy's example .....


The writer's obvious bias* and shallow understanding of history hardy justify a response. But what the heck. During that "momentous" 1965 Kennedy trip the senator received the sort of Chilean hospitality that he deserved: rocks, bottles, eggs, spit and so forth all launched at him. So it is sort of gracelessly stupid and irresponsible for that writer to even rhetorically propose a similar sort of exposure for a sitting POTUS, who would today deserve a great deal more garbage thrown his way.

One more time, for those cocksure editorialists seeking to repeat history:

Image

* For those who don't know who the writer is: Dorfman was a Marxist and cultural advisor for former Chilean president Salvador Allende. He is another "darling of the Left" and has been involved in a number of scandals involving "political correctness" during his stay in the US.
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sin prisa ni motivo para volver
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby PenquistaDeCorazon » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:27 pm

I would not say that Ariel has a shallow understanding of Chilean historyt with all due respect my friend. I do realize that you have lived in Chile since jesus walked the earth but what happened under Pinochet is somehing that only the blind ignore.
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby greg~judy » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:30 pm

patagoniax wrote:* For those who don't know who the writer is: Dorfman was a Marxist and cultural advisor for former Chilean president Salvador Allende. He is another "darling of the Left" and has been involved in a number of scandals involving "political correctness" during his stay in the US.


g~j wrote...
information may be given that might agree with or may not agree with a readers pov.
but, especially in the 2nd case - and we have seen on many instances...
it sets up any existing biases of a reader to challenge the info, or the source thereof.
how many times have we seen "attacking the messenger" vs. considering the message?

see what we mean... :wink:
in the context of this Op-Ed... with emphasis on the Opinion part...
the "messenger" might well be questioned... at the expense of the "message"
PdC was correct in adding the source...
and p~x was correct in challenging the "opinion" of the source
“If we want everything to stay as it is,
everything will have to change."

--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby PenquistaDeCorazon » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:40 pm

* For those who don't know who the writer is: Dorfman was a Marxist and cultural advisor for former Chilean president Salvador Allende. He is another "darling of the Left" and has been involved in a number of scandals involving "political correctness" during his stay in the US.[/quote]

I fully agree on this. He really screwed up during the Duke rape case..... Signing that letter.

Well of course Ariel has a bias PX. Jaime Guzman had a bias. Manuel Contreras had a bias. Kissinger has a bias. You have a bias. I have a bias. However, what he cites in the article I referenced are facts. The CIA was invloved. There are classified documents. Pinochet was a murderer.
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Re: Much Ado About Nothing: Obama’s Chile Visit

Postby greg~judy » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:33 am

ok... let's drag this back from the tangent...
away from the ever-present tendency to take any number of topics
to introduce new~old biases - and rip scabs off old wounds.

present point...
one of the reasons The Puppet Obamination is here
is to set up an exchange of nuke-tech :?
sez he... let's take a demonstratively failing paradigm and share it with chile?
hmmm... anyone see a problem there?

ya know allchileans...
maybe The Puppet Pinera might do well to talk/share with the chinese
:idea:

g~j have been versed in thorium~tech for a while now...
so we will take this timely situation to share a meme with others...
(we will leave it to any who are interested to find the url source)
hint... it was written by a well respected and erudite pommie - Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
and we all know what paper he writes for, don't we...???

Safe nuclear does exist, and China is leading the way with thorium
A few weeks before the tsunami struck Fukushima’s uranium reactors and shattered public faith in nuclear power, China revealed that it was launching a rival technology to build a safer, cleaner, and ultimately cheaper network of reactors based on thorium.
Thorium could be a much safer option for China (or Chile - sez g~j) which has been unsettled by the nuclear crisis in Japan where fears over radiation levels are rising

This passed unnoticed –except by a small of band of thorium enthusiasts – but it may mark the passage of strategic leadership in energy policy from an inert and status-quo West to a rising technological power willing to break the mould.

If China’s dash for thorium power succeeds, it will vastly alter the global energy landscape and may avert a calamitous conflict over resources as Asia’s industrial revolutions clash head-on with the West’s entrenched consumption.

China’s Academy of Sciences said it had chosen a “thorium-based molten salt reactor system”. The liquid fuel idea was pioneered by US physicists at Oak Ridge National Lab in the 1960s, but the US has long since dropped the ball. Further evidence of Barack `Obama’s “Sputnik moment”, you could say.

Chinese scientists claim that hazardous waste will be a thousand times less than with uranium. The system is inherently less prone to disaster.

“The reactor has an amazing safety feature,” said Kirk Sorensen, a former NASA engineer at Teledyne Brown and a thorium expert.

“If it begins to overheat, a little plug melts and the salts drain into a pan. There is no need for computers, or the sort of electrical pumps that were crippled by the tsunami. The reactor saves itself,” he said.

“They operate at atmospheric pressure so you don’t have the sort of hydrogen explosions we’ve seen in Japan. One of these reactors would have come through the tsunami just fine. There would have been no radiation release.”

Thorium is a silvery metal named after the Norse god of thunder. The metal has its own “issues” but no thorium reactor could easily spin out of control in the manner of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, or now Fukushima.

Professor Robert Cywinksi from Huddersfield University said thorium must be bombarded with neutrons to drive the fission process. “There is no chain reaction. Fission dies the moment you switch off the photon beam. There are not enough neutrons for it continue of its own accord,” he said.

Dr Cywinski, who anchors a UK-wide thorium team, said the residual heat left behind in a crisis would be “orders of magnitude less” than in a uranium reactor.

The earth’s crust holds 80 years of uranium at expected usage rates, he said. Thorium is as common as lead. America has buried tons as a by-product of rare earth metals mining. Norway has so much that Oslo is planning a post-oil era where thorium might drive the country’s next great phase of wealth. Even Britain has seams in Wales and in the granite cliffs of Cornwall. Almost all the mineral is usable as fuel, compared to 0.7pc of uranium. There is enough to power civilization for thousands of years.

I write before knowing the outcome of the Fukushima drama, but as yet none of 15,000 deaths are linked to nuclear failure. Indeed, there has never been a verified death from nuclear power in the West in half a century. Perspective is in order.

We cannot avoid the fact that two to three billion extra people now expect – and will obtain – a western lifestyle. China alone plans to produce 100m cars and buses every year by 2020.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said the world currently has 442 nuclear reactors. They generate 372 gigawatts of power, providing 14pc of global electricity. Nuclear output must double over twenty years just to keep pace with the rise of the China and India.

If a string of countries cancel or cut back future reactors, let alone follow Germany’s Angela Merkel in shutting some down, they shift the strain onto gas, oil, and coal. Since the West is also cutting solar subsidies, they can hardly expect the solar industry to plug the gap.

BP’s disaster at Macondo should teach us not to expect too much from oil reserves deep below the oceans, beneath layers of blinding salt. Meanwhile, we rely uneasily on Wahabi repression to crush dissent in the Gulf and keep Arabian crude flowing our way. So where can we turn, unless we revert to coal and give up on the ice caps altogether? That would be courting fate.

US physicists in the late 1940s explored thorium fuel for power. It has a higher neutron yield than uranium, a better fission rating, longer fuel cycles, and does not require the extra cost of isotope separation.

The plans were shelved because thorium does not produce plutonium for bombs. As a happy bonus, it can burn up plutonium and toxic waste from old reactors, reducing radio-toxicity and acting as an eco-cleaner.

Dr Cywinski is developing an accelerator driven sub-critical reactor for thorium, a cutting-edge project worldwide. It needs to £300m of public money for the next phase, and £1.5bn of commercial investment to produce the first working plant. Thereafter, economies of scale kick in fast. The idea is to make pint-size 600MW reactors.

Yet any hope of state support seems to have died with the Coalition budget cuts, and with it hopes that Britain could take a lead in the energy revolution. It is understandable, of course. Funds are scarce. The UK has already put its efforts into the next generation of uranium reactors. Yet critics say vested interests with sunk costs in uranium technology succeeded in chilling enthusiasm.

The same happened a decade ago to a parallel project by Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research). France’s nuclear industry killed proposals for funding from Brussels, though a French group is now working on thorium in Grenoble.

Norway’s Aker Solution has bought Professor Rubbia’s patent. It had hoped to build the first sub-critical reactor in the UK, but seems to be giving up on Britain and locking up a deal to build it in China instead, where minds and wallets are more open.

So the Chinese will soon lead on this thorium technology as well as molten-salts. Good luck to them. They are doing Mankind a favour. We may get through the century without tearing each other apart over scarce energy and wrecking the planet.


ya know... g~j really like yer man Ambrose's style and content!
he's always a good, thoughtful read...
but --- is anybody listening, though?
:idea:
“If we want everything to stay as it is,
everything will have to change."

--- Giuseppe Tomasi di Lamedusa
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