Chile Forum

pinguin wrote:

patagoniax wrote:carpa -- you thought it was a Spanish word meaning "tent." It's another Quechua word, from the original carppa, or karpa. ...

Very interesting. I didn't know it.
You made me remember another Quechua word Chompa. As you know, in coloquial Spanish a "Chomba" is a Sweeter.

Not everwhere. In southern Mexico and Guatemala, a chumpa is a jacket, separate and distinct from a "sueter".

As a kid in Guatemala, my nanny was called my "china". Someone who is carrying or holding a baby while rocking or soothing him is said to be "chiniando" the child...

Hombre de Maiz wrote:

pinguin wrote:

patagoniax wrote:carpa -- you thought it was a Spanish word meaning "tent." It's another Quechua word, from the original carppa, or karpa. ...

Very interesting. I didn't know it.
You made me remember another Quechua word Chompa. As you know, in coloquial Spanish a "Chomba" is a Sweeter.

Not everwhere. In southern Mexico and Guatemala, a chumpa is a jacket, separate and distinct from a "sueter".

As a kid in Guatemala, my nanny was called my "china". Someone who is carrying or holding a baby while rocking or soothing him is said to be "chiniando" the child...

Just north of me is "Río de las Chinas. " See the image. Nothing to do with China, though the visiting gringos all seem to have their wild theories about imported Chinese. But this use of "china" comes from the Quechua, where originally (pre-colonial) it just meant a female animal. With the coming of the Spanish colonies and particularly the preeminent role of the Peruvian viceroyalty in cultural matters, Quechua words spread to the other Spanish colonies, and inevitably the meanings took on different shades, and so in central America the Quechua word came to mean a nana or similar. Elsewhere in the colonies "china" evolved into meaning a female household servant or maid independently of being focused on child-care. Until the 20th century it didn't have a disparaging connotation. In this part of Patagonia, and in much of southern Argentina, a "china" was the wife or significant other of a gaucho or similar rural folk. Further north, it's the term used for the traditional huaso's wife or girlfriend. If you ever listen to the banter related to the cueca, the female dancer is often called the "china."

Of course in Chile as in many countries there are disparaging references to the Chinese. One that is particularly picante is "no soy tu chino" which has about the same meaning and deliberate offensive impact as might be had in the US with someone saying "I'm not your nigger."


Image of Río de las Chinas here in southern Patagonia

Patagoniax, I don't quite understand why you bitch so much. Judging from the pics, you live in God's country...

Hombre de Maiz wrote:Patagoniax, I don't quite understand why you bitch so much. Judging from the pics, you live in God's country...

You just wait, Grasshopper. It may soon be your turn, to suffer for your scenery.

Many thanks. Love the derivation of languages - so interesting, and easier to remember for some reason.
So much to learn!

California South wrote:Many thanks. Love the derivation of languages - so interesting, and easier to remember for some reason.
So much to learn!

Patagoniax era profesor de idiomas y estudiaba en varias universidades en los EE.UU., en Méjico, y en España....antes de su caída, cuando decidió llegar a ser ingeniero, y de ahí a su camino a la perdición, a la deshonra y la ruina moral. Madres, no dejen que sus hijos sean ingenieros.

patagoniax wrote:

California South wrote:Many thanks. Love the derivation of languages - so interesting, and easier to remember for some reason.
So much to learn!

Patagoniax era profesor de idiomas y estudiaba en varias universidades en los EE.UU., en Méjico, y en España....antes de su caída, cuando decidió llegar a ser ingeniero, y de ahí a su camino a la perdición, a la deshonra y la ruina moral. Madres, no dejen que sus hijos sean ingenieros.

You poor conflicted soul!!! But, fortunately for us, you have not forsaken the humanities.

A little historical vignette apropos the diffusion of the Quechua "china" to Mexico and Guatemala:

It would not be an exaggeration to place Pedro de Alvarado as possibly the most cruel, avaricious and unscrupulous of the Spanish conquistadores. Alvarado was among that motley crew of interlopers that set sail with Cortes from Cuba headed for Mexico. It was due to him that the Spaniards were evicted from Tenochtitlan during the episode known as La Noche Triste. After the conquest of Mexico, Alvarado went on to subjugate the lands now known as Guatemala and El Salvador with his typical iron fist. When he heard of the riches of Peru, he set sail in assist Pizarro in the looting and pillage. He soon ran into difficulties with his fellow conquistadores over the spoils. He sailed back to Guatemala. He died crushed by his own horse during a battle to subdue the natives of Nueva Galicia, now known as Jalisco. It was probably due to Alvarado's expedition that Quechua words began their diffusion in Mesoamerica.

patagoniax wrote:

Hombre de Maiz wrote:Patagoniax, I don't quite understand why you bitch so much. Judging from the pics, you live in God's country...

You just wait, Grasshopper. It may soon be your turn, to suffer for your scenery.

Where? In Chile or in New Zealand?

Hombre de Maiz wrote:

patagoniax wrote:

Hombre de Maiz wrote:Patagoniax, I don't quite understand why you bitch so much. Judging from the pics, you live in God's country...

You just wait, Grasshopper. It may soon be your turn, to suffer for your scenery.

Where? In Chile or in New Zealand?

Without a doubt the greater degree of suffering would be trying to live as a productive and civilised human being in Chile.

Hombre de Maiz wrote: When he heard of the riches of Peru, he set sail in assist Pizarro in the looting and pillage. He soon ran into difficulties with his fellow conquistadores over the spoils. He sailed back to Guatemala. It was probably due to Alvarado's expedition that Quechua words began their diffusion in Mesoamerica.

That is what wikipedia says. Here is some of the rest of the story.

It's theoretically possible that de Alvarado might have been exposed to some of the Quechua in Ecuador and Perú but his stay there was so short, and his energies so involved and diluted in the conflict with Pizarro's people (actually in large part with Diego de Almagro, who would later figure in explorations of what became Chile), that there was scarcely time for him or his people to absorb much of the local culture and language. De Alvarado was essentially bought out by de Almagro for the reported initial sum of 100,000 pesos (later increased by 20,000 pesos) with the provision that de Alvarados's troops and cavalry horses pass to control under Pizzaro and Almagro's. The interloper, de Alvarado, ended up leaving almost all of his troops, ships, and equipment to Pizarro's people (for which there is an interesting historical "receipt" ) -- and sailed back in disgrace to Mexico (some later historians say Guatemala) with just one of the eleven ships he started out with, but his coffers quite full. Given de Alvarado's superficial and short-lived adventures in Perú and Ecuador, and the more extensive exchanges between the viceroyalties of Mexico and Perú that were to come in the succeeding years, I wouldn't give de Alvarado too much credit for extensive cultural diffusion.

But there is more to the story. Pizzaro and de Almagro knew that they were short-handed when de Alvarado arrived on the scene, and they believed that they were at risk of an uprising by the indigenous folk. Any sort of open conflict between the two competing Spanish groups might have allowed such an uprising to be successful, with the possible resulting expulsion of the Spanish from that region. By getting de Alvarado's troops and horses under their control, it is widely believed that Pizzaro and de Almagro were able to prevent such an uprising. Else the history of the region might have turned out quite differently.

Por lo que valga.