Chile Forum

cali_chile48 wrote:Living in a 3rd world country certainly has its drawbacks. What a MSTAKE to come here!!! I should have known from the first time I walked around in Valpo in 2002 and stepped in dog shit that a country that cannot solve a simple problem like stray dogs on the street cannot solve a problem as complex as issuing a driver's license to a foreigner. It´s bad enough that I can´t have a bank account or a credit card, now they won't even let me drive a car. I'm done here. Time to cut my losses and find another country to live in.

Here its raining at the moment. The forecast for tomorrow is "Partly Cloudy", though. And after that -- it says, "Clear". What about you?

admin wrote:In the U.S., they would have put you down on your face, cuffed you, hit you with the tazer and pepper spray, then asked you for your ID and what you were doing there. After which they would have thrown you in the county jail for a month on suspicion of everything. Over 1 million dollars in legal fees later, they would have let you out with a felony conviction for looking at the steroid pumping police officer wrong and resisting arrest. By that time your car would have been auctioned off at the policeman's ball, so the local sheriff could buy some new toys, and thus you really would not need a driver's license because they would have deported you.

Sounds like Brazil.

cali_chile48 wrote:Living in a 3rd world country certainly has its drawbacks. What a MSTAKE to come here!!! I should have known from the first time I walked around in Valpo in 2002 and stepped in dog shit that a country that cannot solve a simple problem like stray dogs on the street cannot solve a problem as complex as issuing a driver's license to a foreigner. It´s bad enough that I can´t have a bank account or a credit card, now they won't even let me drive a car. I'm done here. Time to cut my losses and find another country to live in.

C´mon CC48, dog shit is everywhere......Chilean seafood and pisco is not!
The idea of Chile does seems a lot more attractive from the secure confines of my new temporary home in this former Hanesatic port town,than ever before.

Hightower wrote:
C´mon CC48, dog shit is everywhere......Chilean seafood and pisco is not!

Yes. There is a lot more Chilean dog shit than there is good Chilean seafood and pisco. Both metaphorically and literally.

My new book about Chile is going to be called "La Omnipresente Mierda de Perro."

At better kioskos everythere.

admin wrote:

murf wrote:

admin wrote:Well, think of it this way.

In the U.S., they would have put you down on your face, cuffed you, hit you with the tazer and pepper spray, then asked you for your ID and what you were doing there. After which they would have thrown you in the county jail for a month on suspicion of everything. Over 1 million dollars in legal fees later, they would have let you out with a felony conviction for looking at the steroid pumping police officer wrong and resisting arrest. By that time your car would have been auctioned off at the policeman's ball, so the local sheriff could buy some new toys, and thus you really would not need a driver's license because they would have deported you.

....

Aww!! Come on now, I think you are exaggerating just a bit about the legal bills

your right. You could have had a public defender for free, and been guaranteed a fair trial followed by a fair hanging. All paid for by the gov, that would be happy to take it out of your estate taxes after your death.

Whizzzz!!!


That's the sound of my sarcasm flying right over your head







Ps. You'll get no argument from me about the atrocious behavior of the boys in blue over here(US).
I have witnessed it first hand on more than one occasion. The police in Chile (and Argentina for that matter) have been nothing but gentlemen (and Ladies) to me. In fact the conduct of the Chilean cops is one of the most endearing things about Chile IMO.

Warning: Stupidity and Incompetence are Rampant in Chile

To those of you who are outside of Chile, you can expect many, many, many, many, encounters with stupidity and incompetence if you come here. My suggestion is to save yourself the trouble and go somewhere else.

The problems are pervasive and infuse every bit of contact you may have with other people, from drivers on the street to bank cashiers to tradesmen to real estate agents. No one seems to care about delivering quality service or a quality finished product. Crap is the rule. If someone manages to rise to the level of mediocre it’s a damn miracle.

Pedestrians are rude and inconsiderate. They will stand in groups at the top of the escalator in a busy mall and talk about their cousin´s girlfriend´s niece or some shit, oblivious to the fact that many people are trying to squeeze past them. They can´t be bothered to move 10 feet away and hold their conversation in the nearby alcove.

Gooey green gobs of dog shit can sit for days in the sun in front of city hall. No one even notices because it is so normal. So is the drunk slumped in the corner slobbering on himself. So are the sick and lame dogs everywhere, the aggressive and dangerous bus drivers, the petty thieves, etc. It´s just normal, everyday life here.

Office personnel will listen endlessly to whatever you have to say before they smile and politely give you wrong information. Office X sends you to Office Y, Office Y sends you to Office Z, Office Z sends you back to Office X and you start over. Nobody will say, "I´m sorry to hear about your problems (that we created for you), and I´m sorry I don´t have a solution for you, but I will try to find someone who can help you."

If that happened I think I would be shocked speechless. It would be like watching a dragon swoop in over the hilltop and breathe fire on to my neighbor's house and burn it to the ground. (I´d think...that was really cool.....can you do it again, but fry my other neighbor this time? You know, the one with the whiney kid and the unruly dog and really bad taste in colors and music. Yeah. That one ).

There are so many people here who just don't give a shit about doing a good job. It doesn´t matter to them that their failure to be conscientious, or increase their knowledge base, or elevate their level of service in any way really fucks with other people’s lives. They are perfectly happy with the role they play in maintaining their fucked up society. They are inept and indifferent, but we are forced to deal with them because they control access to vital services and documents, like reporting taxes and issuing visas.

Of course, this is common in the US, too, which is partly why I left. I used to refer to the US as "idiot nation". Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that Chile deserves the same, and worse.

Another conclusion, even darker, is that Chileans don´t want foreigners to come to Chile and try to be productive. If the Chilean government and the Chilean people wanted that, then things would be different. We would be able to open a bank account and we wouldn’t to spend MONTHS without so much as valid ID card (which THEY insist on us having) or a Chilean driver´s license (which THEY insist on us having). Simple things become complicated very quickly when you don’t have ID and can’t move around easily. It shouldn’t take several hours to pay your bills every month, but it does, because we can’t do it on-line and the mail service sucks and the public transport system sucks even worse, so we have to do in person with no valid ID and without permission to drive. All I have is a receipt from the post office that says I mailed a certified letter, a receipt that doesn’t mean anything to anybody. The carabineros don’t want to see that receipt. They want me to show them a valid Chilean driver’s license. The bankers don’t want to see the receipt, either. They want to see a valid Chilean ID card.

Why stay in a place where you are not wanted and a place where simple things are impossible to do because of massive indifference and incompetence? There are better options out there.

The caveat to not wanting foreigners in Chile is that they DO very much want your money. You will pay fees of all kinds, and be expected to tip as well, on top of the 19% value added tax that applies to virtually everything you buy. For that tax money, one might logically expect some kind of service from government employees. HA! What a joke. You get the same blank stares from clerks and secretaries in the city offices, in registro civil, and in the oficina de extranjería. They smile sweetly while they tell you that they can´t help you, you can’t get there from here, it sucks to be you and go fuck yourself. But pay first.

I am a mosquito trapped in Chilean spider web. I’m paralyzed without any valid documents, the struggle to get free is futile and it’s just a matter of time before the spider shows up.

The thought of a class action lawsuit has crossed my mind, but I seriously doubt that foreigners have legal standing for such a complaint. If they won’t give us access to their banking system, why in the world would they give us access to their legal system? That would be massively and unexpectedly stupid….but then….maybe just because of that, it might work. This is Chile, after all, and Chile is full of massive, unexpected stupidity.

It also sucks to live in a country where you can’t leave anything unlocked for more than 30 seconds. Two weeks ago I had 60 dollars worth of groceries stolen from my car while I walked over to the trash can to throw away a paper cup. I reacted slowly because I didn´t believe that anyone would be so audacious to stop their car, put my groceries in their car and drive away while I was 20 meters away. But it happened.

I left the US because I saw that it is in decline and I wanted to try to contribute to a society that was growing. I thought Chile was such a place. But not now. I don´t see any evidence that Chileans are willing and able to overcome their deficiencies, and therefore I expect to see the same old mierda year after year after year, and I´d rather spare myself that frustration.

My paradigms are shifting. I am no longer committed to staying in Chile long term. My original plan was to try it for 3-5 years and see how it goes, but I was also fairly committed to a longer term. I would not have bought a house if I had thought that I was going only going to fix it up and sell it, which seems to be my best course of action now. My design decisions would have been very different, I wouldn’t have taken in pets, I wouldn’t have bothered spending time and money on trying to start and promote a business. I would have kept things a lot simpler. Lesson learned. Now I’m three years in, and feeling really stupid myself because I fell for the allure of Chile’s natural beauty and I tricked myself into thinking that Chile was, somehow, different than any other Latin American country. Nope. Same stupid, Latin shit.
The idea of staying long term isn't very attractive anymore. That's gone. Ten years of this shit would just make the situation even worse. Chile won’t change. It will be the same fucked up country in ten years that it is now. The choice is to learn to accept it, or go somewhere else. I don´t think I want to lower my standards to the point of accepting this. I will actively start the same process I went through in 2001 when I decided I didn’t want to be part of US society any more. It’s time to make new plans and put this bullshit behind me.

cali_chile48 wrote:Warning: Stupidity and Incompetence are Rampant in Chile

To those of you who are outside of Chile, you can expect many, many, many, many, encounters with stupidity and incompetence if you come here. My suggestion is to save yourself the trouble and go somewhere else..

And not just that but sloth, corruption, moral turpitude, nationalistic arrogance, monumental ignorance, insincerity, filth, thriftlessness, superstition, dishonesty, flatulence, awful ring-tones, inability to solve word-problems, and the like, because after all, Chile is part of Letrinameria, and those characteristics and worse are among the Core Values here. So you are reflecting what I have been saying for years: Don't...... Don't -- Unless what you can reasonably expect to find here makes all that crapocracy worthwhile. And I mean reasonably - not some fantasy notion. You, dear immigrant-to-be, make a list of the reasonable benefits and the unavoidable shit you WILL step into every day. You may be better off in Squaw's Ankle or Washakie-Ten.

You can pick any number of criteria for determining the level of cultural intelligence in a nation, the ability to analyse a close-to-home problem or need and develop a solution that as part of an inter-relating system is effective and at least somewhat efficient. Look at the Chilean system of dogs and trash. Only a tiny portion of the population has figured out how to dispose of their trash. The rest place their filth, including the used diapers and toilet-paper that dogs so love, in plastic bags on the parkway hours before trash pickup, with the assurance that at least 90 percent of the time the street-dogs will rip into the bags and distribute the filth over several blocks. And they do this week after week, year after year, generation after generation, because this country lacks the ability to reason and solve simple problems.

cali_chile48 wrote: No one seems to care about delivering quality service or a quality finished product. Crap is the rule.

Actually there were some people who cared about quality and service. I met both of them before they left the country.

cali_chile48 wrote: Pedestrians are rude and inconsiderate. They will stand in groups at the top of the escalator in a busy mall and talk about their cousin´s girlfriend´s niece or some shit, oblivious to the fact that many people are trying to squeeze past them.

Amazing. I experienced something similar a couple of times earlier today. And the day before, and the day before that, and ...... every fooking day I am around these people.

cali_chile48 wrote: Gooey green gobs of dog shit can sit for days in the sun in front of city hall. No one even notices because it is so normal. So is the drunk slumped in the corner slobbering on himself. So are the sick and lame dogs everywhere,

Where do you get the green stuff? Maybe we can trade you a few tonnes of the regular stuff from the sidewalks on this block for some of that scary green shit.

Welcome to Chile: here, have a turd.

cali_chile48 wrote: Nobody will say, "I´m sorry to hear about your problems (that we created for you), and I´m sorry I don´t have a solution for you, but I will try to find someone who can help you."

Around here they acknowledge that you have been shat upon and shrug the national shrug and say "es lo que hay."

cali_chile48 wrote: It also sucks to live in a country where you can’t leave anything unlocked for more than 30 seconds. Two weeks ago I had 60 dollars worth of groceries stolen from my car while I walked over to the trash can to throw away a paper cup. I reacted slowly because I didn´t believe that anyone would be so audacious to stop their car, put my groceries in their car and drive away while I was 20 meters away. But it happened.

Let this be a reminder that in this country, no good deed goes unpunished. You should have just tossed that trash on the ground the way locals do.

Lucky they didn't steal your car as well.

cali_chile48 wrote: Ten years of this shit would just make the situation even worse. Chile won’t change. It will be the same fucked up country in ten years that it is now.

Oh, everything will change, and turn to roses, if only these sweet children will get their "educación de calidad."

cali_chile48 wrote: I tricked myself into thinking that Chile was, somehow, different than any other Latin American country. Nope. Same stupid, Latin shit.

Chile. Mierda.
No cabe la más mínima
duda.

OK I have to weigh in here. I live in Vitacura and honestly, there's very little dog shit in Vitacura. There is NO trash lying on the streets. The municipal trash trucks come around everyday. People are always sweeping the streets and cleaning the parks. It's much cleaner in Vitacura than San Francisco. So I think it's a municipal thing. If your "municipalidad" is a bit lax on cleanliness, too bad.

isolde100 wrote:OK I have to weigh in here. I live in Vitacura and honestly, there's very little dog shit in Vitacura. There is NO trash lying on the streets. The municipal trash trucks come around everyday. People are always sweeping the streets and cleaning the parks. It's much cleaner in Vitacura than San Francisco. So I think it's a municipal thing. If your "municipalidad" is a bit lax on cleanliness, too bad.

Vitacura isn't Chile.

And "municipalidades" shouldn't be cleaning up after people who distribute trash. Even marginally civilised with low cultural intelligence people should not be promoting conditions that lead to the distribution of filth in the first place. This is largely a matter of personal responsibility, or rather the lack of it, that characterises much of the country. It would be absurd to think that a municipality providing trash pickup once a week should also send workers around on the other days of the week to essential wipe the arses of the inhabitants.

isolde100 wrote:OK I have to weigh in here. I live in Vitacura and honestly, there's very little dog shit in Vitacura. There is NO trash lying on the streets. The municipal trash trucks come around everyday. People are always sweeping the streets and cleaning the parks. It's much cleaner in Vitacura than San Francisco. So I think it's a municipal thing. If your "municipalidad" is a bit lax on cleanliness, too bad.

Yeah I'm going to weigh in too. As Px points out, Vitacura (and Las Condes) is hardly typical of Chile. Really nice to visit for the change of scenery and the feeling of being in the "1st world"...

As for the municipal trash trucks, we have them pretty much daily here too, but that doesn't stop the dogs getting into the rubbish that the lazy leave at street level. You have to question a society that NEEDS daily rubbish collection! My family of three generates maybe three Jumbo shopping bags of rubbish per week, if we're being rampant consumers. Everything else is recycled (assuming we can find somewhere that recycles) or goes in the compost.

Also, the fact that it is necessary to have people constantly sweeping streets and cleaning up the mess says a whole lot as well.

EVERYTHING else that cali and Px point out, I can identify with. I'm lucky though, as I've been sent here for work and as such there are people that make my life considerably easier. In the situation of cali and others who have moved here by themselves to create a new life, I have nothing but admiration for those who manage to stick it out against pretty significant difficulties/frustrations, especially those living outside the really nice bits of Santiago.

Andres wrote:

patagoniax wrote:awful ring-tones

Uh, oh. That does it!
I might have to reconsider emigrating to Chile.

The string was "....flatulence, awful ring-tones, inability to solve word-problems.... " and of course sarcasm is just another of the many services we offer.