Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby New2Stgo » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:28 pm

After a couple of months here now, I'm ready to buy a car...
In the US, obviously this wouldn't be a question... being that Gas is so cheap (By the way, I didn't think that gas was cheap there until I moved here).
Now, I hear people talk about Diesel being the way to go and given the fact that I'm used to big American SUV type cars, maybe that is the best thing for me. However, after being here for a little while, those smallish type cars, don't seem so small to me now as they did in the beginning. So considering how little I'll be driving, I'm thinking that maybe I should go with a Mazda 3 or a Nissan Tiide Sport.

Any thoughts, personal experience in this area? Comments welcome :D
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Re: Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby patagoniax » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:06 pm

Personal experience is only with diesel Toyota Hilux 4x4 pickups and Hyundai Gallopers in Chile and Argentina.

You may have already noted that in Chile a gas ("bencina") engine is called a bencinera and a diesel ( "petroleo") engine is a petrolera. In Argentina gasoline is nafta and diesel is usually ....diesel.

For the Hilux 4 cyl gas engine on the autopista about 10 km/litre. City about 8 km/litre.

For the 2,8 litre diesel version a little better, up to about 12 km/litre on the autopista, maybe 9 or so km/litre in town.

Naturally this depends on how you drive. And I found that I am more patient with the petrolera since it is a bit sluggish. And a bit noisier as well, but not annoyingly so. The Toyota Hilux diesel option was much more expensive.

Harder to start the diesel truck engine in colder temps or with an aged battery, or old glowplugs. That may be less of an issue with a newish vehicle. Down here water in the diesel is a problem. Newer diesels have decent fuel-water separators but this is a potential problem area. Diesel also gets algae growth and waxy formations in ways that gasoline doesn't.

In the cold regions of Chile they are supposed to switch over to winter-grade diesel but I don't know if they have a summer/winter grade difference down here where it is cold most of the time. Have heard conflicting stories from the COPEC folks. Actually there are supposed to be different summer and winter blends for gasoline as well but the station attendants tend to make things up when they don't know for sure -- rather a national trait you should be aware of.

I have experienced cases where COPEC and YPF and other stations run out of gasoline but never such a problem with diesel. Stations without gasoline can be from disasters like earthquakes, simple supply logistics and unexpected demand, or strikes. Chile is becoming increasingly strike-prone. Punta Arenas has seen several recent strikes, including those where truckers blocked the access to the city and tried to "starve" the population of fuel and food (petty terrorism). The carabineros stood by with hands warming in pockets. But that is another story, and another warning.

Sometimes though not always you see higher prices for maintenance and service for diesels. Down here fuel filters for the Toyota diesel cost about two-three times what the gasoline engine filters cost. Expensive oil filters for diesels in Chile, for Toyotas but perhaps some other aftermarket alternatives might help here. The diesel engines and thus the vehicles tend to be heavier. Diesel is harder to ignite so it's a bit safer to store and handle.

Idle thoughts. Your mileage may vary. Yell at me if opinions differ.
Patagonia sin repisas.
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Re: Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby jehturner » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:31 am

Hey, fuel is cheap in Chile. You should try the UK...

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Re: Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby fraggle092 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:22 am

A diesel vehicle will cost more than its gasoline-powered equivalent, but diesel becomes worthwhile if you plan on doing a lot of driving.
Thats why all the collectivos in my town have illegal retrofitted diesel motors.
Incidentally, when I worked in Punta Arenas, we were warned to avoid certain diesel distributors who were known to deliberately water the fuel.
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Re: Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby gringobiker » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:36 am

Take a look at the Citroen Picasso 1.6 HDI (diesel)
Not as cramped as the other ¨little cars¨, Goes like a bullet, gets stuck behind nothing, very comfortable, and the most amazing fuel consumption.
I can get anywhere from 1000 to nearly 1300km on a 55 l tank of fuel depending on speed, of course.
My only problem with this car is that occasionally I would like to have a bit more ground clearance so consider where you will be driving.
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Re: Gasoline vs Diesel?

Postby otravers » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:20 am

Modern European turbo diesel engines are extremely efficient and have vastly improved over the last 15 years. Instant ignition, mileage that makes you wonder what's the big deal with hybrids, less obnoxious "trucky" noise (vs. oldie atmospheric diesel engines), fantastic torque, high top speed. I've had turbo diesels from Renault (Laguna), VW (Golf) and Alfa Romeo (156), all offering nice performance. I used to drive consistently in the 160-180 kph range on European highways consuming about 8l/100km on my Alfa - that's almost 30 miles per gallon driving at 100+ mph.

Once newer tech such as common rail direct injection became widespread, the mileage really got boosted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail

Now they're more sophisticated machines and the maintenance bill when you reach 100.000km is non-trivial. You don't want to skip any of the mandated maintenance deadlines every 15000 km or so.

Given gas/diesel is cheaper in Chile than in Europe, and the spread between diesel and gas has been narrowing, I think you'd need to drive a lot to justify the extra upfront capital expense, unless the value carries into the used market (I don't know the Chilean used car market much so I can't opine here). In countries like France high-end cars with 6-cylinder gas engines are pretty touch to sell, they're just too expensive at the pump.

In summary: good technical choice but the business case is not a slam dunk if you're driving less than 30,000km/year (number pulled out of my ass but you get the idea, don't buy diesel to drive 5k/y).
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