Chile Forum

A very interesting cultural perspective of these folks in Chile...
On a recent visit up Valle Azapa, g~j saw many indications of this rich cultural heritage...
Even to the point of an Afro-Museo.
Much of the history of the Azapa oasis is connected to old African slavery...
"...a preliminary estimate is... more than 8,000 people of African descent in Arica y Parinacota."
We have been told one of the richest landowners in Azapa today...
...is a lady who traces her descent from those slaves.
"There are also Afro-Chilean families in the north-central region of Coquimbo, principally in the towns of Salamanca and Ovalle"

But the main point is that they are not recognized (yet)...
“Afro-Chileans are here, they exist, but we don't see them or take them into account.”
BUT...
"A draft law that would recognize the existence of the Afro-Chilean ethnic group, introduced in Congress in August 2009, states that the country's folklore, music and national dances contain “African features” and that the national language and cuisine have also been enriched by the heritage of African slaves."

Well worth the read if any are interested in the cultural diversity here -
...and its impending recognition
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/printer_7213.shtml

What I don't get, is why, if there were a 12%-20% population of African descent a one point, why are there so few now?
I know I can count on g~j for a comprehensive clarification.

seawolf180 wrote:What I don't get, is why, if there were a 12%-20% population of African descent a one point, why are there so few now?
I know I can count on g~j for a comprehensive clarification.

Well... perhaps not so comprehensive (at this point)
But we will try to clarify, however...
g~j cannot reconcile all the various stats (below)...

Was the TOTAL population of Chile was such as the researcher states (12-20%)
Wiki states this...
"The Afro-Chilean population has always been tiny, reaching a high of 2,500 people during the colonial period; their current percentage of the population is less than one percent"
i.e. NO... but then we all know about Wiki's stats (sometimes)
This seems blatantly inaccurate, when examined further

Another excellent link is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Chilean#Slavery_in_Arica

Who extracted their info from this...
http://usuarios.multimania.es/oronegro/who_we_are.htm

The historiographer Gonzalo Vial Correa affirms: “Towards the year 1558, the number of blacks, mulattos and “zambos” (spanish with indian offspring), boarded in Chile the 5.000, against the 2.400 spaniards, 17.000 mestees and 48.000 indigenous, in other words, out of the total of non pure chilean population by the end of XVI century, almost 20% carried the african stigma in their blood.
In 1871, pure blacks represented the 58% of Arica´s population. If we add the amount of mulattos and zambos, we conclude that Arica was a basically an afrodescendat city.

Fascinating stuff... most interesting to research
Regardless of what "percents" you hold as true...
It seems recognition is LONG overdue, isn't it

But we didn't answer the question... where did they all go?
Arguably, assimilated into the population through intermarriage...
"The African minority that lived in Santiago, Quillota or Valparaiso began to mix with gypsies, and Europeans, shaping a whole new ethnic and cultural identity for Chile."
As is witnessed in any country with minority groups, over the centuries.
How many times have we heard of supposedly "pure" (?) Caucasians (in many countries)...
Being surprised at finding a black (or Indian, or Asian, or ???) ancestor a few generations back.
Such is the way of the world - genetic diversity.

I would say interesting from an anthropological / historical perspective, but honestly is Chile really expected to spend perhaps millions of dollars to determine if there is a sub-population of people (many likly do not even want to be recognized because of social stigma) and then somehow endow them with some sort of special political status. How about counting red-heads, people with blue eyes, people with one leg (all have larger population I am sure)?

Not against the idea, just seems it should be a bit down on the priority list of things to do in Chile.

admin wrote:I would say interesting from an anthropological / historical perspective, but honestly is Chile really expected to spend perhaps millions of dollars to determine if there is a sub-population of people (many likly do not even want to be recognized because of social stigma) and then somehow endow them with some sort of special political status. How about counting red-heads, people with blue eyes, people with one leg (all have larger population I am sure)?

Not against the idea, just seems it should be a bit down on the priority list of things to do in Chile.

g~j are not sure how a law simply recognizing cultural contribution... inclusion as a category on a future census form... and inclusion in some future textbooks might cost "millions"?
And nothing in the article or proposition indicates any "political" status... just "cultural"

“Their institutional and legal inexistence leads to their exclusion from public policies that target other vulnerable groups, like indigenous peoples,”
...and this translates into “marginalization and discrimination,”
“The fact that we do not even exist in the statistics is a result of that racism.”

Hmmm perhaps this is why...
"(many likly do not even want to be recognized because of social stigma)"

A very special group of blacks in Chilean history are the members of the 8th Regiment of The Andean Liberation Army that fought the Spaniards in Chacabuco. That was the Army organized in Argentinian territory and lead by San Martin to liberate Chile and later allow the liberation of Peru. San Martin demanded black slaves as contribution to the Liberartion Army by the Mendoza landowners, because in his opinion blacks were the only people capable to participate in the infantry component of the Army, and included them in the forces commanded latter by O'Higgins. They were included in the Andean Liberation Army and received their freedom after the crossing of the Andes and the fight against the Spaniard. As members of the infantry they were exposed to the higher risks during the battle. This particular episode of the history of Chile is very seldom mentioned and that group of blacks has never received the recognition they deserve for their contribution to the liberation of Chile.

Hmmm... so a culturally homogenous group of people numbering in the thousands... who had an important role in the history of Chile... Recognition!

Yer damn right... then any/all such other groups should also be included!
Yep... any other culturally homogenous group of people
Whose ancestors fought for Chilean independence....
Let's hear from them... asap
Certainly --- equal time, equal cultural rights

Well judging from what the troll SUPER IDIOTA (patriota) wrote, I can see how certain segments of Chile society would say it is better to sweep it in under the rug and move on.

There was one scene in the TVN Heroes historical series where B'O'Higgins speaks to a black worker in one of his military encampments that all blacks in Chile would be free once Spain was defeated.

For those who can't click on links... here's just a wee bit - of some interesting history.

It is commonly supposed that in the ethnic composition in our country, there is no african factor. Throughout its history, Chile has never had a significant amount of black race individuals within its population, therefore its influence in our genetic heritage is practically null. Neither we find negroid dashes in our folklore, nor in any other cultural expression to determine our identity as chileans. The rumour says that this nation was forged thanks to european and indigenous elements. About black people: better not to talk.

Nevertheless, all these affirmations couldn´t be more distant from the truth. Even though in Chile the “african” factor is not as present as in other latinamerican countries -such as Cuba or Brasil-, denying its influence would be an unfortunate disrespect to our history and identity as a nation. It is documented, for instance, that our national dance and music, the “cueca”, has indubitable negroid characteristics in its conformation.
And this is not an isolated nor accidental fact. As in all the other countries of this continent, ours is a nation forged by uncountable racial and cultural encounters, social conjunction that cannot be ignored. Chile is a mestizo country and within its mixtures the african is present.

When the Liberator Army arrived to our country in 1817, two infantry divisions (7º and 8º) were totally composed by african blacks and creoles recruited by San Martín in Argentina. According to german historiographer Eckart Kroneberg: “The braver ones, the most fearless General´s men have black skin, since San Martín has bought the freedom of these african slaves with the noumerous donations he recived to enforce his Liberator Army. These blacks accept with content the new slavery which, in case of winning, will bring them to freedom. They compose the attack first force and are located in front of the artillery.”

These foot soldiers showed their braveness in the Chacabuco Valley, definitive event in the achievement of our emancipation from the Spanish Crown. Driven by their respective chiefs, Conde and Cramer, these two batallions had to fight body to body with the enemy lines to reach the victory. Two years later, they fought again in the Maipú battle. Highly known historiographers like Benjamín Vicuña Mackenna, Francisco Antonio Encina and Barros Arana, agree to point out the important performance that africans played in our independence.

I'd imagine that much of the "Afro-Chilean" community would prefer to be unnoticed.
The narcotics business is an under appreciated one

MikieO wrote:I'd imagine that much of the "Afro-Chilean" community would prefer to be unnoticed.
The narcotics business is an under appreciated one

Doesn't the qualifier "much of" seem somewhat subjective...
Perhaps based merely on a Tbs. of rumor, a tsp. of innuendo + a pinch racial stereotyping

Hmmm... but then again?
There's "some" or "a bit" of rumor...
About exactly where some of the "tomato money" in Valle Azapa originates...?
Tomatoes are cheap, easy to grow, legal, tasty, good supply/demand...
Maybe a "loss leader"...
Guess we'll never know, eh?

greg~judy wrote:

Migration_map4.png

where did you find this map?
thanks
jon

longjonsilver wrote:where did you find this map?
thanks jon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroups

Here's another cool one...
Kinda Bucky Fuller world view...

Here is the thing, I would like to see much more serious anthropological studies done on the subject first. I am sure there are African descent people in Chile (hell, everyone else seems to have come here at one time or another), but of the hand-full I have seen in my years in Chile almost 99.9% of them where Brazilian tourist or immigrants (easily distinguished by their clothes and Portuguese accents rather than their skin color). I just have a hard time buying that somehow there is a significant hidden group of African American genetics running through Chilean society on a statistically significant level ( totally setting aside skin color, just looking for genetic links to the early population). If we tested everyone in Chile, would we find out most Chileans are African descendants ( the last 400 years type, as obviously most everyone does at some point in the family tree)? I don't think so. At least not with a population of 16 million people are you going to come up with a sufficiently large group that wants to be recognized to make it worth making something special out of it.

On the recognition thing, I don't think many foreigners appreciate the shear stigma in Chile of being "dark". I am not even talking about African-American descent. I am simply talking about those with darker features for whatever reason (a bad tan will illicit discrimination, depending on how you dress). It is a very real discrimination in Chilean society even today, and I think in many ways is far more perverse than the rest of Latin America simply because there is such a relatively light-skinned population that are not of indigenous descent. So, good luck finding a whole lot of people that would even check the box, if the box was added to the form. It would be fairly meaningless survey (as are most such surveys in the World).

Personally, I think asking such a question on a government form of any sort is institutional racism. The government should not care and should not ask what "race" you are. Neither should private industry, schools, or any major social institution.