Chile Forum

After a few months of lurking around this forum, I'm jumping in. I'm counting this post as today's "do-something-to-get-off-your-ass-and-get-to-Chile-for-real" action item.

Given that I just used the term "action item" in the sentence above, you can probably guess that I'm still mired in corporate world of the US, but hopefully this will all be a distant, laughable memory 6-8 months from now as I look up at the mountains outside of...Temuco? Coyhaique? Fruitillar? Not really sure where we'll land just yet. Suggestions are always welcome.

So, here's the Cliff Notes intro: My name's Juliann - friends call me Jules. I am married to an amazing Chilean guy, going on 15 years now, whom I met playing protest music in a seedy bar in Asuncion, Paraguay, where I served as a Peace Corps volunteer (in the country, not the bar...although I did spend waaay too much time in that bar). His family were expats in Paraguay since the mid-1970's. Y'all can guess why. We got married in Paraguay, then came back to the States - much to his family's chagrin. (It was bad enough that their son married someone from the "truly evil empire," but that she took him away was worse still. Thank god for Skype. It keeps everyone happy). We have 2 kids - son, Alex, 13 years old and daughter, Ana, 4 years old. We're not all that worried about Ana picking up Spanish, but Alex's school experience might prove challenging. We expect him to start and finish high school in Chile - ideally at a local school with his father and I serving as tutors.

My Spanish is decent, but should improve once we're in-country. Leo has better English than my Spanish - to which he credits "The Simpsons" and "Bevis and Butthead."

The current game plan is for the whole family to take a 3 week trip to Chile this January, during which time we'll celebrate my grandmother-in-law's 90th birthday, and drive south to identify potential home sites/business locales. Both my husband and I are avid mountain bikers. We both also love to fish, although we need to get better at fly fishing since I sense worms will be frowned upon. He is also a luthier (guitar maker), woodworker and - recently - a chopper/bobber motorcycle freak. I love to hike, ski (downhill and cross country), kayak and climb. We both play music, as does our son. Our ideal business would be to run an eco-tourism hostel/recording studio/arts studio. Not sure what the business model looks like just yet, or if that will meet any needs in Southern Chile, but hopefully our scouting trip will help clarify things.

I look forward to learning, and hopefully contributing, much on this forum as we start this new phase of our life journey.

-Jules

First, a welcome to the foro, though I am relatively a newbie here myself.

You will notice some past posts with strong words about certain subjects, among them whether or not living in the Santiago basin is a good thing, mostly centered on health and crime perceptions. I'll spread just a little more of that dirt and will no doubt be shot at for it, but here goes....A Kiwi girlfriend who is in Santiago now has complained of many weeks of a complex viral problem that no one in Chile seems to be able to treat, and she is losing weight too rapidly. Forum members speak highly of Chilean medical care but if they [the medicos, not the foreros] don't start showing some of that expertise, somebody I know is headed back to the Long White Cloud.

And today, the following from a longtime amigote in Santiago, concerning an attempt to get treatment for the family ...

La semana pasada debí ausentarme jueves y viernes producto de una influenza, cuando fui al médico me dijo que la tasa de enfermos por esa causa había aumentado enormemente. Tuvimos enfermos también a la F--- y al M---, el domingo este tenía mucha fiebre y la E--- decidió que lo lleváramos a urgencias de una clínica, tuvimos que volver a casa pues había una espera de 5 horas....

Your mileage, of course, may differ. But it seems to me that everybody is sick and sicker down here this winter.

Jules, hope you and the family get to Chile for a look-see adventure soon. Your target destinations are varied and travel-wise, far from each other leading me to think you probably have a wide-open mind about where you might like to be...a very good thing. Here's to hoping you plan ahead to take alot of time when visiting, and that you enjoy it tremendously.

Nullius wrote:I'll spread just a little more of that dirt and will no doubt be shot at for it, but here goes....A Kiwi girlfriend who is in Santiago now has complained of many weeks of a complex viral problem that no one in Chile seems to be able to treat, and she is losing weight too rapidly. Forum members speak highly of Chilean medical care but if they [the medicos, not the foreros] don't start showing some of that expertise, somebody I know is headed back to the Long White Cloud. Your mileage, of course, may differ. But it seems to me that everybody is sick and sicker down here this winter.

Null, always good to get the rose-colored glasses whacked off your face before someone smashes them on your nose, so I would not shoot at you about the plight of your girlfriend...but I would not say that medical care in Chile is superior technically, but that it is cheaper and more accessible for many of us ex-pats than in our home country (discounting those who have good health care coverage there). Medical mis-diagnoses and medical mysteries abound everywhere, even in the most advanced societies...rule of thumb...second, third and fourth opinions. We have had intense, personal experiences with medical care in Chile and I count it as - as good as - or superior to any other country I know. A decision to visit or move to Chile should include all aspects of ones needs, but fear of the medical care is unfounded. I truly hope things work out for your friend.

Actually I was trying to relay the following observations:

In one individual's case, the attempts so far to get a satisfactory medical solution for a common and widespread illness have been fruitless, using Chilean medical resources. Ergo,the doctors so far visited have said that the illness is an epidemic in Chile, and that they say can't treat it effectively. At this time it looks as though my Kiwi friend will have to get medical clearance to get on that plane back to Aotearoa, for treatment that she has not been able to find in Chile.

At this point we must ask ourselves: what is the value of "access to health care" and "low cost health care" if such care is ineffective? (For some, the answer may be, well, so far we haven't run into this). It is certainly possible that some types of health care are adecuate, while those resources dealing with respiratory illness are not.

Perhaps the epidemic was predicted accurately. Back in May CNN ran a summary =
http://www.cnnchile.com/salud-medio-amb ... recuentes/

It's useful to note that this epidemic is not limited to Santiago but rather involves a national scope. Here, in the Bio Bio media, there is news of a 66 percent increase in cases of respiratory illness this season =
http://www.radiobiobio.cl/2010/08/24/fu ... l-bio-bio/

In July the Chilean health service put out a notice for the outbreak in the south of Chile:

El Ministerio de Salud anunció un brote de enfermedades respiratorias para las próximas semanas en la zona sur de nuestro país. Aunque desde el Gobierno señalan estar preparados para el aumento de atenciones, personeros ligados al sector Salud cuestionaron la preparación del sistema. Ante este anuncio, diferentes personeros ligados al sector manifestaron su preocupación frente a la preparación de los hospitales y consultorios para afrontar la demanda.
En esta línea, el senador socialista y miembro de la Comisión de Salud del Senado, Fulvio Rossi negó que el sistema esté preparado y criticó la actitud de la cartera de Salud en los últimos meses.


My second point is that the one cited Santiago resident also encountered not just the medical folks' opinion that a health epidemic is underway, but also observed a five-hour wait for care at "urgencias." It's of course possible that not every private plan clinic will have a five-hour wait for care. But news of a five-hour wait at Urgencias should raise a flag in many people's minds, and it seems to confirm some of the published predictions of a lack of health-care resources to deal with what some have characterized as either an outbreak or an epidemic.

Whether those conditions are similar to what happens in other countries is not really the intent. I'm aware that many foreros have positive opinions of Chilean health care. However, I was trying to provide admittedly limited personal observations for a prospective new resident concerning health conditions, or opinions of conditions, and published reports of these health conditions, here in Chile. It should go without saying that others will have differing observations and experiences. Every blind man who touches the elephant will come away with a different notion of the nature of the beast.

Hi Jules.

I have been here in Chile for 4 years now and have learnt an awful lot about Chile, the hard way, during that time. I wish I had found this forum when I first arrived here. I am finally settled now and I’m living in Curacautin, about 90km from Temuco, towards the mountains, near the area you want to look around for a place to live. I visited everywhere from Arica to Puerto Montt before settling here. It sure has all the recreational activities you are interested in but not much motorcycling folk. Just one crazy gringo biker around here…

There are many positives and negatives about living in Chile; it just depends upon your personal view of the country, its people, and the culture. Just don’t expect anything to operate as efficiently as where you come from. If you are gifted with patience, that alone will take you a long way. Remember, all the gringos living here are here by choice, not because anyone forced them. Not a bad place to be and I’m sure all the medical attention you may require. Personally, I think the doctors and citizens are over cautious. Kid falls at school, hurts a hand a bit, and within a few minutes they’re under the x-ray machine. That type of thing I don’t like so the kids now call me before being taken to the hospital for anything.


It would be nice to meet you when you are in the area in Jan. I also have a 13-year-old son and 2 daughters aged 12 and 9. I can tell you of many things to beware of before settling in some of these areas.

Appreciate the perspectives in re Chilean medical system. While I have personally had positive experiences with the private system for a limited range of issues, no system is perfect. I will ruthlessly take advantage of living in a global economy - what is best in Chile gets done in Chile, what is best in US gets done in US, etc. Good feedback!

John Hyre

Nullius wrote:Actually I was trying to relay the following observations:


At this point we must ask ourselves: what is the value of "access to health care" and "low cost health care" if such care is ineffective? (For some, the answer may be, well, so far we haven't run into this). It is certainly possible that some types of health care are adecuate, while those resources dealing with respiratory illness are not.

Hey Null. I get what you are saying, and I certainly wasn't disagreeing totally with you. My point is that, in response to your paragraph above, having access to health care in Chile was extremely more valuable to not having access to anything in the US (for me). In your friends case, and certainly others, with the respiratory plague, or whatever this thing may be, I hope she finds some relief. The choice for me in the US, for ordinary medical issues, would have placed me in the position of indebting myself to the point of never seeing the monetary light of day. I appreciated that I could go be treated for pneumonia, or a broken foot and for under a $100, or to be in a BP monitoring program for $1 a week. That is what I am speaking about with the Chilean health care system.

So, as a guest, or legal resident of Chile, basic health care that can prevent more serious and costly problems, is a plus, in my opinion. Even for more serious situations, such as the by-pass surgery my husband had last year there was praised by his doctor in the US and cost us less than a used car. Cost, obviously not being the determining factor, the availability of state-of-the-art medical care for situations like that are priceless. My husband also recently had a simple surgery in the US which lasted 20 minutes, yet cost four times what his by-pass surgery in Chile costed us. This recent surgery is not yet available in Chile, so, there ya go! I appreciate the options.

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome!

Interestingly, the fore-mentioned grandmother-in-law was actually just released from the hospital in Santiago (the name escapes me) after being admitted last week for, you guessed it, a respiratory infection that went into pneumonia. She was on a ventilator, but recovered. She was in the ER for 12 horas before they admitted her.

I currently work in the medical industry (we make products to help prevent and treat hospital acquired infections), and ran a rural health post during my service in Paraguay. Having been nearly killed by a post-appendectomy surgical site infection that required a med-evac from Asuncion to the States, there's not much that would shock or scare me on either end of the health services spectrum. While I do my best to stay healthy, I'm a wee bit fatalistic and figure if it's my time, well...that's what the living will is for. That said, I will still probably get private insurance.

Having lived in New Orleans for a fair number of years (pre-Katrina), and with family still down there, we're pretty good at downshifting to adjust to a more "tranquillo" way of life. In some regards, that's what we're aiming for in general.

We're fairly open-minded with regards to where we want to end up. I miss the mountains (went to school at CU-Boulder, and miss Colorado), my husband misses the ocean. We figure that Chile is a good compromise as it, seemingly, is like California without the societal passive-aggressiveness. We're going to the Chilean embassy's "Fonda" for September 18th here in Chicago. Should be interesting. As much as possible, we'd like to get all our disparate paperwork in order prior to heading over. I have to try and find copies of my HS and college diplomas. They're collecting dust or rotting away in some box somewhere around here. The one advantage to having gotten married in Paraguay is that the marriage license is already in Spanish.

@gringobiker - I'd definitely like to get your perspective, and I'm sure my son would love to know how your son adapted. Is the "biker" road biker, mountain biker, motorcyclist...? All the above? I haven't yet researched Curacautin, but it's now on the list. Obviously you have an internet connection which, while not essential, is a nice-to-have. Again, Skype keeps the folks on the other side of the planet happier, regardless of which side of the planet we're transmitting to/from. I spent 3 weeks in Southern Chile 16 years ago, and fell in love with Torres del Paine, but know that I probably need to be at least a little on the grid, even if we can secure wind/solar power for the day-to-day living.

Jules

Hi Jules.
Yes, it would be good to meet when you’re here. If time permits maybe have a BBQ down by the river or something. A neighbor down the road rents out kayaks too if your thinking of braving the cold water. He does river rafting past our house too when conditions are right, but not in Jan.
Firstly, a bit of advice. I have heard, from the admin of this site, Spencer Global, that it is always better to do all your visa paperwork and applications once already here in Chile and not from outside the country as they are more than often rejected that way. From within Chile it is more or less just a matter of filling out the documents correctly and then, once again, patience. Check it out with him. He seems to be the Pro in this regard.

Regarding the biking, yes, I have to admit, I’m the lazy one. Started motorcycling at 12 and fell in love with the throttle immediately. Even went as far as to develop an allergy to anything with pedals and as any biker will tell you, ¨if I have to explain, you wouldn’t understand anyway¨.
Yes, we do have Internet here, 12km out of town, but at the moment very slow and Skype wont work but a friend close by has a fast connection so I’m trying to change mine at the moment. He assures me that it took him 3 months of fighting with the phone company to get his up to speed though. Things we have to get used to here.
Regarding Curacautin, there is not much to research about it. It’s just a typical southern Chile village, with not much at all. They assure me it’s a city though. It is however on the route to Argentina, over the mountains, and in this valley there are many rivers, thermal baths, national reserves, volcanoes, ski center, waterfalls, and lots of tourism. That’s why I’m here. Property prices are reasonable too.

Not sure if I’m allowed to put my email address on here.
Stay in touch and good luck.

gringobiker wrote:
Not sure if I’m allowed to put my email address on here.
Stay in touch and good luck.

Much better (for you, so as you don't get spammed all to heck) to send him a PM with your email address in it.