Chile Forum

Nullius wrote:I think that would be rather ambitious, to influence Chilean foreign affairs in that way.

Oh, no doubt. But much political influence is driven by money - bribery and/or pressure by wealthy lobby groups. I'd be one less-than-wealthy individual talking to whomever I could talk to with my ideas. Approached properly, colonization of the Antarctic would be an excellent way to boost Chile's economy. Learning how to deal with the extreme environment would produce valuable information that other nations would be sure to value. All the equipment, vehicles and supplies necessary would create industries to supply those things.

Nullius wrote:Judging by what we see in the Chilean press, the current policy toward Antartica seems to be popular within the country. Bear in mind that the costs of even the present degree of "colonization" at Chilean bases are very high. And Chile has higher priorities right now, including repairs from the earthquake.

Developing earthquake-resistant structures is probably also an interest, I'm guessing? Earthquakes, much like the Antarctic cold, represent an environmental challenge for humans to overcome.

Nullius wrote:Viewed from here, it is hard to imagine why Chile might decide to invest the necessary huge amounts of money in larger scale colonization of Antarctica, and what might be gained by doing so.

I would start be establishing a string of villages along the coastline, and the first few years simply determining what people require to live there safely and comfortably. That in itself shouldn't be too much more expensive than building a new neighborhood in a city, apart from travel and shipping costs. Developing cold-resistant, reliable vehicles will be expensive; but that just means opportunity for an industry to develop and produce such vehicles - which in turn means more jobs for Chileans.

Nullius wrote:I can't offer the URL since I am a rascally wet-eared newbie but the Chilean Antarctic Institute (INACH in Spanish, for Instituto Antártico Chileno) has a website with links to their projects down there. One of their research projects involves the production of biodiesel from algae that are native to the Antarctic peninsula. These particular algae have a characteristic which keeps biodiesel from turning to something approximating wax at low temperatures (one of the characteristics of most basic biodiesels). All of this is still in the research stage. When the same algae are grown outside of cold regions, the biodiesel product looses this desirable antifreeze characteristic. There is currently no indication that such algae-based biodiesel could ever be produced in large enough quantities to even supply a single Chilean Antarctic base with its fuel needs.

Are there extant forms of fuel which remain viable at such temperatures? Or might it be viable to design a vehicle which contains its fuel supply in an insulated environment impervious to exterior cold?

Nullius wrote:Not sure that anybody cares about these observations but I trust these are within the scope of this forum and thread.

These are observations which I find invaluable, as they help me learn more about Chile and its environment.

maxine wrote:

I have a biography on my website which outlines what happened to me: Part I: Beginnings

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Well, a lot of things make more sense now.... some interesting information on there, but not in a good way. Those external sites you have linked are offensive and a little scary

To my experience, most people choose what to be offended by.

nwdiver wrote:With your police record in hand I don’t think you would get residency in Chile they are trying to move on from their fascist years. Try Venezuela, though Chavez avows socialism it looks more like fascism.

Socialism is the road to fascism, as Stalin adeptly demonstrated. To place priority over the masses rather than the individuals results in viewing humans as masses rather than individuals; from that point on, governments deal out atrocity with ease.

I'm not sure why you need to leave Canada. It seems to me that you are already living on another planet.

Nullius wrote:I think that would be rather ambitious, to influence Chilean foreign affairs in that way.

Countryless wrote:Oh, no doubt. But much political influence is driven by money - bribery and/or pressure by wealthy lobby groups. I'd be one less-than-wealthy individual talking to whomever I could talk to with my ideas. Approached properly, colonization of the Antarctic would be an excellent way to boost Chile's economy. Learning how to deal with the extreme environment would produce valuable information that other nations would be sure to value. All the equipment, vehicles and supplies necessary would create industries to supply those things..

Right now, Chile has a surplus of "less-than-wealthy individuals" to whom no-one listens. And it is difficult to imagine anyone in a position of influence in Chile being able to convince the government that expensive experiments in Antarctica would have useful near-term payback.

I don't think that Chile has the technological nor investment resources for the sort of activity you envision in the Antarctic. Chile has certainly not demonstrated such capabilities. Chile is also not a significant manufacturing nation. The sum of Chile's technological expertise cannot produce a decent domestically manufactured stove, padlock, airplane, or tractor for use in temperate zones, let alone for the really cold places.

Much of the Antarctic research being done at Chilean sites there is partially sponsored by the United States, and the US military in particular, specifically through the US Army's Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory. US researchers have been generally polite in not revealing that they find the Chileans to be "science bumpkins"--- less than adept at the sort of methods and technologies needed make meaningful progress in this area. I spoke with one US scientist who was managing a base there (in Chilean Antarctica) and they were deeply annoyed that the first thing the Chileans did on arrival was to crack out the pisco, despite the strict operational rules against such behavior. Cultural differences? Of course. Discipline, scientific or otherwise, is largely lacking in the culture, while alcohol is a sacrament. I will probably get a raft of shit for saying that, but I think most foreros who live and work in Chile and who have also worked in Western or Asian technology environments will understand. One can certainly be a fine and simpático human being and simply lack certain technological skills, propensities, and knowledge.

Chile is simply not a "science and technology" oriented nation. It is not in the blood, and won't be anytime soon. Chile succeeds in producing raw materials (esp mineral) and agricultural /fisheries output using its multinational corporate access to external technologies. Chile then buys what it cannot or will not manufacture. Chile itself is not well positioned to perform meaningful research and technological adaptation. To begin to tackle such new capabilities, I am told, would require at least two generations of highly motivated and well trained technologists, and commensurate improvements in the work culture and the educational system (an educational system that still shows about 48 percent of its students below basic reading and writing skills, when judged by international standards and testing).

This should not be viewed as villifying a nation, but rather a recognition of where its expertise does and does not lie.

I think all the vehicles and systems you want to develop have been done in the Arctic by the Danes, Canadians, Russians and Americans.

Interesting analysis, Nullius. It makes sense. But then, are all these astronomical facilities manned by Europeans and others? Do Chileans do any of the research? I've noticed that major discoveries are hailed as "Chilean" but I don't know if Chileans are doing any astronomical research.

Countryless, as a resident of Atacama I can tell you we have all kinds here (although I've yet to see anybody espousing White Power - that might not go down well with the not-always-so-White Chileans here in the North). Not nice the ad hominem attack against you several messages back. I saw nothing violent or especially intolerant in your website, absent which, I give leeway to others. I may not share your views but that's not important. One question: why did you plead no contest in Canada? Your conviction followed your plea, I assume, and it seems you stepped right in it by entering that plea rather than contesting the charges. Were you represented? Was counsel offered free of charge?

nwdiver wrote:I think all the vehicles and systems you want to develop have been done in the Arctic by the Danes, Canadians, Russians and Americans.

I hope you are not thinking of the Norwegians as a subset of Danes. Greloed will be most displeased.

Stoph wrote:Interesting analysis, Nullius. It makes sense. But then, are all these astronomical facilities manned by Europeans and others? Do Chileans do any of the research? I've noticed that major discoveries are hailed as "Chilean" but I don't know if Chileans are doing any astronomical research.
?

I don't pretend to know much about the astronomy sites in the Atacama, so smarter and better informed folks are invited to jump in.

But as an example, the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA) is probably typical of the source technology providers. The ALMA array is still in work and is being provided by the European, North American, and East Asian members. I found no Chilean technological participation other than construction and logistical support (which are not really astronomy technologies). I don't think that Chile even threw any significant money at the project but is claiming that [Chile] is the premier center for astronomical research and observation in the southern hemisphere.

There are three chilean universities that offer postgraduate degrees in astronomy. The only research projects I have seen published are related to light pollution in Chile that may affect optical observation - but I didn't look far. I have seen ads in EMOL for technical services workers at the astronomy sites in the north. The ads were written in English and required dominance of English, and as I recall were for non-astronomy services such as power generation and waste management .

Stoph wrote:Not nice the ad hominem attack against you several messages back. I saw nothing violent or especially intolerant in your website,

I don't find his personal website particularly offensive, what I find offensive are links to forums where people are writing things such as "I hate black people; all black people smell and are stupid; the white man dominates the black man; the only black people I like are dead ones because then they can't move into white neighbourhoods. Obama will never rule the Ku Klux Klan" and so on.

White Nationalist/White supremacist. I understand (but don't agree with) the difference when he puts it on his website but this certainly isn't the case on the White Nationalist forum. Some of the things written on there are terrible and it surprises me that you feel there was nothing violent or intolerable on there.

GJJIM wrote:

greg~judy wrote:

street~art804 sm.jpg

That which does not kill us, only makes us stronger. literally:

I was meaning to comment on this but found it difficult to do so without sounding snarky.

The original “Aus der Kriegsschule des Lebens.- Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.” Nietzsche: " Twilight of the Idols or How to Philosophize With a Hammer."

Often translated close to the original as "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger," the quote was a famous and popular axiom of the Nazis' Third Reich, though that is hardly Nietzsche's fault. In a loose and figurative sense, the expression can support a cultural purpose (e.g., “Life is nothing but suffering. We must learn to cope with it.”) This of course differs from the present maxim, "Life occasionally involves suffering and this must always be blamed on someone who has a lot of money."

Although there are some limited (accent on the "limited") applications in medicine, the literal expression is regarded as a classic in logical fallacy. For example, literally ingesting 5 mg of lead dust or partially depleted uranium every day might not literally kill you immediately, but it is difficult to see how this might make you literally stronger. The soldier who barely survives an exploding IED in a coma and is blinded, looses both legs, and suffers punctured lungs is hardly made "stronger" by the mere fact of those injuries. It is easy to imagine other circumstances where injury does not lead to inherently improved strength. Taking one sleeping pill may let you wake up stronger; taking 20 may not kill you but might instead leave you without working kidneys and thus a life tied to a dialysis machine. So to be taken literally, the famous quote needs some boundaries, or a restatement. [Sometimes what doesn't kill you immediately may under some limited circumstances serve a beneficial effect, but kids, don't try this at home." ]

The literal expression "What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger" is used in university classes as an example of logical fallacy. I think that this Nietzsche quote is used in Engel's book, "Analysing Informal Fallacies." On the other hand, as a non-literal, metaphorical expression, bereft of formal logic and conditioning boundaries, it may serve an ambiguous cultural purpose and a hypothesis tool to be carefully tested in medical experiments -- and other circumstances.

If that discussion sounded snarky, I apologize.

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greg~judy

Having lived and worked in Canadistan for about 8 years now, I can tell you that the situation up north is very much as the complainant says. There have been two boatloads of Tamil Tigers and their families arrive in Vancouver who have been allowed to stay (even though Canada has named the Tigers as a terrorist organization). For example. Several years ago I read in a local paper in Ontario that there were several hundred known war criminals living in Canada.

It must be understood that officially and unofficially in Canada, the only bad people in the world are Americans. I know a few who disagree, but they are certainly in the minority. Anyone who disagrees is a right-wing nut. Of course.