Chile Forum

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Again the important question is about SELLING! If and when that time comes……

Which is why I asked the question I did on page 1. If you are going to use gold as a significant part of your asset protection scheme then it stands to reason that at some time in the future you will have to do at least some selling of that gold. If you can't sell the gold then buying gold is no different than buying Snickers candy bars in bulk. (Actually come to think about it buying snickers would be better since before expiration date there are ready buyers of snickers. )

Ripsigg wrote:

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Again the important question is about SELLING! If and when that time comes……

Which is why I asked the question I did on page 1. If you are going to use gold as a significant part of your asset protection scheme then it stands to reason that at some time in the future you will have to do at least some selling of that gold. If you can't sell the gold then buying gold is no different than buying Snickers candy bars in bulk. (Actually come to think about it buying snickers would be better since before expiration date there are ready buyers of snickers. )

Ah, yes... Timing...!
The Crux of the Biscuit... (Frank Zappa).
Yo, dude... you'll have sell your soul to get that one down right.
Which is why many folks are gun-shy of risk and volatility in preciousss metals - not sure of "timing"...
And doesn't that really get down to the old Greed~Fear formula
Basic rule...
Hold until the stress of your Au falling
- increases your fear... past some arbitrary/individual point
more than your hope of Au rising
- increases your greed (past that same above point):?
g~j would sell no Au/Ag until the St really starts hitting the Fn.
But... that future point in time may be apparent (or not), to astute individuals...
... given, of course, the aforementioned proviso of the GREED-FEAR formula
Regardless... Au represents a "store of value"... always has - always will
More so than any paper promise ever made...
And we all know from history - Au will never go to zero...
Just as history shows - Paper HAS - DOES - WILL (go to zero)
Caveat emptor

But really... Au vs. Snickers...
Your premise falls flat, assuming (many) more Snickers can/will be made...
Or, a "competitor" comes up with a cheaper/better bar.
It's a dog-eat-dog whirld out there in CandyLand
But "sweat of the sun" (Au) doesn't have any competitors...
OK... maybe "tears of the moon" (Ag)
- but they're really good buds, they work together
And Au doesn't worry... no expiration date
Snickers will get broken/crushed/rot... Au never will
Rats will eat your Snickers... rats won't eat Au
Au is nice to hold... A Snickers will just melt in your hand
You can give your significant other Au... to enjoy (forever)
You can give a Snickers... only happy for 5 minutes

Hmmm... g~j like Au, not Snickers

You know my wife, G&J, so you will find this funny:
My wife had a talk with me a few weeks back about putting too much savings into gold or silver. I was a little perplexed and tried to explain that gold/silver represent money and can be turned into money but she was still gun shy and I was even more perplexed. Then she dropped the bomb: She feels more comfortable seeing the numbers on an ATM screen or in an online bank site than she does feeling real gold and silver. Her point was that gold and silver were not real money. At that point I laughed and couldn't stop laughing but it also got me thinking.

She does have a point, the MM and society in general has told us to put more value in numbers on a computer screen and than in actual tangible assets. I wouldn't be surprised if most people felt the same as she does.

I went on ebay and I bought some silver peso and centavos coins for her. I paid a little more than what the silver in them is worth, but it's worth the lesson for my wife. After buying them I sat down with a calculator and showed her how much the silver in them was worth and how 1 peso back when the Philippines was using silver(up until 1946) would be worth about 500 pesos or so today.

She's a little more comfortable with the idea of putting some of our savings into gold/silver, but she isn't completely weaned off of the numbers on the computer screen. She would probably be weaned off of it if it was easier to sell gold/silver for a decent price.

Being a regular reader of some Casey-reports I believe they have a pretty good track record (although they missed completely the run up last year because they were very, and are, negative on the general amrket). One accusation that I hear sometimes is that some of the recommendations are influenced by kick backs from the companies being recommended but I have no idea if it is true or not.

Good luck.

To clarify, my post was not about "when do you sell" but "where do you sell if you are in Chile" circa 2015 (as a guess).

You know my wife, G&J, so you will find this funny:

Yep... not unusual POV... not surprising.

She's a little more comfortable with the idea of putting some of our savings into gold/silver, but she isn't completely weaned off of the numbers on the computer screen. She would probably be weaned off of it if it was easier to sell gold/silver for a decent price.

Ahhh yes... Ag considerations... the poor man's Au
1st - the buying...
Yes... premiums... lesser the better
Depends on product?
small coins = large premiums
100oz bars (Ag)... very low premiums over spot...
BUT, storage/convertibility concerns?
Junk silver - relatively low premium - same storage, but better convertibility
2nd - the storage/transport... Ag = bulky Au = not
Lots of coins/bars/junk = safe place
Transport across borders... doable - but caveats?
3rd - selling - if/when
pay premium to dealer to buy...
pay premium to dealer to sell...
(Hmmm... maybe become a dealer?)
If the appreciation (profit) of your Ag is significantly greater that the buying price*
What, me worry?... about trivial premiums
(i.e. Best Case Scenario)
BUT... if you play within the boundaries of +/- premiums...
re your profit/loss... and want to buy/sell?
Then maybe you shouldn't be in the game
Go BIG or go Home... or wait for BIG market moves?

All this is moot, to what you have and what you want to do with it... and WHEN?

eeuu sez... To clarify, my post was not about "when do you sell" but "where do you sell if you are in Chile" circa 2015 (as a guess).

g~j have thought about this - in any/all countries.
Notwithstanding how much Au/Ag you have...
And HOW you got it into the country????
Bottom line is VALUE.
If/When - in any country... the (paper) St hits the Fn... and (paper) is worth wiping yer ####
The barter system will re-evolve.
Folks (any folks - any country) will recognize inherent "VALUE" in commodities.
Ag (especially) will find a place (again) in people's pockets.
No worries, in the least, of selling/bartering/trading yer Ag (or Au)...
For goods or services of equal "value"

Hey... WTF... g~j are NOT qualified investment advisers...
In any way, shape, form...
Nor are g~j prognosticators
As the saying goes...
I don't expect to share your profits, nor will I share your losses.
Do yer own due diligence, dudes (dudettes).
As Rune sez... (to paraphrase)
Disregard everything g~j said...
M~T~ness... just like our glasses of Gato

BTW... g~j reserve the right to copy/paste any/all of this into a future Ag thread
ripsigg took us off from an Au bent, on an Ag tangent
No worries, M8

Ah, but we can't talk about Au without Ag, they go together in perfect tandem and both have their purposes. With a 60 to 1 spread between the two, Ag takes care of small values, Au takes care of large values.

Too much Ag in your bag makes transport difficult. Too much Au in your bag means you are wealthy. Ag is for the poor man, but even the poor man needs to prepare.

Where is the Ag thread, my friend? Is it about time?

Regarding silver, the logistics are difficult for a mobile expat (weight). Also a warning for those in the States, silver shows up very dense on TSA X-ray, you will most likely have a physical bag check when transporting silver.

Agreed... much easier these days to carry a smattering of Au coins - notwithstanding that previous post about TSA~goons schlepping out of their job description.

BUT... in the "old daze" (before TSA)...
g~j used to carry Ag/Au on several occasions - to/from China.
Back when pm's were at epic lows - pre 2001...
We would carry Cdn Au (Maple Leafs) with us and get jewelry hand-made in various places.
But once, we also brought a 100oz bar of .999Ag - carry-on.
Yes... the density set off the xray machine...
I showed them the bar... no worries.
In China, I then drilled whatever grams required off the bar, or offer a coin to melt
Then choose a design for rings/bracelets/necklaces/earrings...
Small hole-in-the-wall shops would hand-make our pieces as we watched...
Nothing exquisite... just good journeyman quality.
We still have quite a few nice .999 Ag pieces...made when Ag was under $5...
Still have some .9999 Au pieces... made when Au was about $250
And the labor was always a pittance.

But I digress... those daze are long gone
Even as those Au~Ag pieces have appreciated substantially in value... it's also the memories of watching the molten metals under the torch... really looking like the sweat of the sun and tears of the moon.
Probably not too many folks these daze... would walk into a shop in Asia (or anywhere), with a couple ozs of Au~Ag... and calmly watch it melting into a sweat~tears puddle

The Sweat of the Sun is chasing new records today - $1244 as the Sun sweats and sets in a most AUspicious way
And overnite... in YenLand and EuroLand...

At about 09.25 GMT on the London Bullion Market, gold hit a record $1,251.85 an ounce.

"Gold rallied to a new all-time high this morning as worried investors continue to pile in to the precious metal"

"We are seeing continued signs of stress in the financial markets and investors, novice to expert are looking at gold now as a hedge against further turmoil." Gold is viewed as a safe-haven investment in times of economic trouble.

US gold futures for August delivery hit a record high $1,254.50, and were later up $10 at $1,250.80. The precious metal also hit record highs in euro, sterling and Swiss franc terms.

Investors' concern that loose monetary policy will unleash inflation is among the factors prompting interest in tangible assets such as gold.

"If you mass produce something then it will lose value at some stage. Quantitative easing is undermining the value of Western currencies and assets.

"Yet the European Union has decided that the solution to the debt crisis is even more debt and confidence in the recovery package has now evaporated. When people abandon bonds and Western currencies they will look for real assets, which can't be created at the touch of a button. The gold market really does have the bit between its teeth at the moment."

Gold Prices Top Record, Break $1,260

Gold prices hit a new record high Friday as investors fled into gold as a safe-haven asset.

Gold for August delivery was popping $8.70 to $1,257.40 an ounce at the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The gold price has traded as high as $1,260.90 and as low as $1,243.10. The U.S. dollar index was slipping 0.05% to $85.64 while the euro rose slightly to $1.237 versus the dollar.

Gold prices settled at a record high Thursday of $1,248, and pierced Friday their previous intraday high of $1,254 an ounce. Fridays in the summer typically lead to more volatility in gold as volume thins and traders have been opting for cash over other assets to protect themselves against a weekend where anything can happen. Friday could be especially volatile with quadruple witching forcing traders to repurchase or sell their options contracts before they expire.

The EU reportedly will release the findings from the bank stress tests. Any more negative headline news from the eurozone could squash the euro's recent rally and most likely prompt another flight to safety into gold.

Summer months typically are hard on gold prices as physical demand wanes from key consumers like China and India. Gold bugs usually have to wait for India's fall wedding and festival season for higher prices. Some analysts think that if gold can hold up and continue to settle higher during the summer that a violent move higher will follow.

"That's when you're going to see the shorts throw in the towel, people add on, and that's when we'll get that $1,400, $1,500, $1,600 an ounce...

And... for those remaining aurophobes...

Aurophobia is defined by Webster's dictionary as an abnormal fear of everything gold; but it might be more aptly defined as 'the pathological and almost hysterical fear of owning gold, as espoused by the mainstream media'. The mainstream financial media seem to be falling prey to this malaise at an alarming rate. With gold rising seemingly in perpetuity not only in dollar terms but in a plethora of free-floating paper currencies, the antagonists are out in full force, their fear and loathing of gold for all to see. Gold seems to engender all manner of emotions, and there appears to be no middle ground. The mere mention of the word can induce comments more on a par with those of Marmite. People either 'love it or hate it'...

http://www.hindecapital.com/docs/hil_reports/HindeSight%20June%202010%20Gold%20The%20Currency%20of%20First%20Resort-1.pdf

A close above $1250 in spite of all the manipulators can do bodes well for Au over the summer.

Those who piled in back in '99 thru '05 are smiling now.

Well this topic has been languishing for a couple months...
With Au on the usual summer volatility fun~ride...
But now, with Au at a 6 week high...
Perhaps it's time to rattle a few old bones and take a fresh look at things...
g~j like these ones today...

China Drastically Cuts Treasuries, Buying Gold And Silver Assets
... in part... http://www.kitco.com/ind/Handwerger/aug182010.html
China decreased their holdings in U.S. Treasuries by a record amount in a U.S. government report issued yesterday. Treasuries at the moment are experiencing a steep rise as the U.S. is financing its staggering debt level by offering its obligations to other countries. China has historically been the largest holder of U.S. debt as a means of promoting a strong dollar, but the unattractive yield along with reckless government spending seems to be causing the Chinese to rethink the risks and benefits of holding U.S. government bonds. On one hand, they need to make sure the U.S. currency does not devalue but on the other hand they need to protect themselves from a treasury bubble.
...
There seems to be a major investment shift away from treasuries as the Chinese are skeptical of the U.S. debt situation. The Chinese are looking to make strategic investments in natural resources. China may not be public about their policy move, but they are taking significant steps to increase their position in mining and energy companies.
...
China’ s move to decrease their holdings may be starting a trend that could influence other countries as the scramble for basic commodities and hard assets continues. This commodity search should spread to U.S. mining companies, especially as the dollar and treasuries weaken. I expect an increase of acquisitions in U.S. gold, silver and base metal mining companies in the next few years.

GOT AU??? [AND AG]

And more grist for the mill...?

China Reduces Treasury Holdings...
... in part...http://www.kitco.com/ind/Butler/aug172010.html
So, let me go through this exercise on what happens when the deficit financing comes crashing down... The Gov't has two choices... It can aggressively raise interest rates to make the Treasuries attractive again, or... It can allow a depreciation of its currency, which acts as the "clearing mechanism" for trades... In this case, if the dollar is much weaker, then when foreigners buy Treasuries and convert their base currency for dollars to purchase the Treasuries, they get to buy the Treasury at a "discount" because of the weakness of the dollar.

Now... Which one do you believe the Gov't will choose? What's behind door number 1? Or door number 2? One, brings your economy to its knees, and 2 deep sixes the purchasing power of the currency...
Which one do you believe the U.S. will opt for, given the current state of the economy?
...
Hmmm... Gold is at a 6-week high this morning, and I think this is where Gold takes the high road, while dollars, yen and francs, take the low road. And as I've always said I thought a rising Gold price would occur when investors realized the economy in the U.S. was a house of cards, and investors would need to protect their wealth...
I don't want to slight Silver... So... Don't forget about Silver as a protection of wealth too!

GOT AU??? [AND AG???]

The "Flight to Safety" Trade Your Broker Won't Tell You About
...in part...http://www.kitco.com/ind/Summers/aug172010.html
...as of November 2009, Gold officially became a “flight to safety” play on par with the reserve currency of paper money: the US Dollar. In plain terms, Gold is no longer a US Dollar hedge, it is a sort of reserve currency of its own, tracking its paper money counterpart, the US Dollar.

More evidence of this comes from Gold’s relationship to the Euro. From 2001-late 2009, Gold and the Euro were the primary anti-Dollar plays for the financial world. This changed when the Sovereign Debt Crisis shifted from Dubai to Greece, crushing the Euro. Indeed, when you look at the chart below, it is clear that the end of 2009 represented the end of Gold’s correlation to the Euro as an anti-Dollar hedge, and the beginning of its status as a standalone flight to safety play akin to the US Dollar.

GOT AU??? [AND AG???]