Chile Forum

We have all experienced it at one time or another and there is no way to avoid it 100% of the time. I have gotten "taxed" pretty heavily a couple times my self and have learnt where to buy things in order to avoid it. I encourage everyone to contribute from their experiences.

My first piece of advice is... if you look gringo and are at the beach in Viña; don't buy anything from the guy that rolls up and down the board walk selling refreshments and snacks. He got me real good once... CLP $800 for a single bottle of water. I didn't really think anything of if because that is pretty much on par for here in Canada. Then I got to one of the permanent stands that post their prices... and I just realized that I just got charged close to double what the going rate is.

So my first tip is… when ever possible buy from and establishment that posts their prices. And avoid the street vendors. They will squeeze you for what ever they think they can get.

Secondly... if you are looking for property. Ask a Chilean friend/or Chilean significant other to check it out for you first, alone. Last October my wife and I were out looking at some properties in an area that her parents are fairly familiar with. We got some prices and when we got back to their place shared our information and they were both kind of shocked at how much we were beign told. The both attributed it to me and suggested the sellers were increasing their prices a fair bit because I look like a forigner.

The posted price rule at stores and ferias is a good standard.

Proxy chileno pre-scouting or more also a good policy and a given for anything real estate related.

Avoid buying from vendors who do not issue boletos unless at a feria or unless you know exactly what you are doing. When prices are not posted at the feria, I sometimes hang around like I'm waiting or doing something for a chileno to pass by and inquire or keep on moving to get the price range of the item before inquiring myself. Remember it is not just a gringo tax, after the quake there were many storefront operations that charged unprepared chilenos double to triple the price for needed items and did not issue boletos for these gouge sales.

This might not apply to the big city but the more you become recognized as a local resident, the less likely vendors will try to take advantage of you. And do punish the ones who try by never stepping foot or buying from their establishment again. At the feria, make it obvious you are bypassing them and even better buy from the non-gouger vendor adjacent to them as they watch.

In general, always do your research beforehand to make sure you do not get taken.

In general, women proprietors and vendors are less likely to gouge than males. My apartment rental agent is a woman and she never once tried to up the price for this apartment with a view because I am a foreigner. I am paying the local price or slightly better due to the inflation of the past couple of years as confirmed by the going prices of other rentals in the same building. I'm sure it helps that she also is a resident of the same structure.

So my Father-in-law comes up with this maestro that did some work for him a few years ago and says he can help me repair my roof after the quake messed it up. While he(we) were doing this, I just decided to rip the whole roof off and make a terraza instead. I have had this idea in my head for about a year now and since the roof was going to need work anyway, I thought now was the time to do it plus I can sell most of the tiles that are not broken at a discounted rate to my neighbors that needed just 10 or 20. That should offset the cost of the terraza just a bit.

After discussing this with the maestro he says no problem..he can do the work for about 100,000 pesos and I would have about 60 or 70,000 in materials( I guesstimated 100,000). He started out installing a door to this area from my upstairs which he wanted 50,000...no problem...I gave him a secadora(MSRP 130,000) in trade and he was happy as a pig in shit. After this work was done, he was supposed to report back the following weekend to continue and when he didnt show, we called him and his prices went up. The 100,000 for labor jumped to 250,000 and material prices went from 60 or 70,000 to 150,000. Now I´m thinkin what in gringo´s name is he smokin´...he just priced himself out of some work, which I was going to be helping him do anyway. He would even be using my truck & fuel to get the materials as well as my most of my tools and my manpower to get the material from ground to the 2nd floor.

In Santiago the huge problem is apartment prices. Many places are very used to a high turnover with Gringos who stay for 3 to 6 months. They will actively promote rooms in their apartments to them, knowing that Gringos will pay the inflated prices asked (mainly because we don't know any better and it's still cheaper than what we're used to back home.) I've heard of some people who were pretty much paying rent that was the same as the price for the entire apartment.

I wasn't aware of this until an friend and I (she was Chilean) were looking at renting an apartment together last year. She was doing all the talking with the real estate and the numbers she was bringing me made me think 'wow, we are seeing some amazing bargains' but then she told me those were usual prices. So the best suggestion is to shop around, as other people what they pay and be cautious of those ads you see over and over promoting the same house/apartment owned by Chileans and targeted at just Gringos.

Taxi Drivers..

Saying they dont have change for $5000 when your fare is $2500, they dont even offer to make close to it, they just leave you in a possition to leave the 5000 or have a fight about it...

i usually carry about 3000 in coins now and atleast 10000 in small notes so i can pay the exact price

My rules of thumb so far:

- Proxy Chilean is the best advice. Have your trusted nana or maestro ask quotes for you. Get a price over the phone before they've seen your face.

- If you have a posh address, avoid the cuico tax by not giving it over the phone, or saying you're from a more popular neighborhood.

- Do select your vendors at the feria based on how they've been treating you. We're regulars at a few stands where we know we'll get the best fruit/vegetable and they won't gouge us. You can build up amicable relationships with vendors who will actually give you discounts, especially if you spend more than the average customer, and do so every week.

- Make it explicit you've been in Chile for a while, know the regular prices, and are not ready to pay gringo price. Show you're paying attention. Don't wave around large amounts of cash (100K pesos and more) like it's nothing to you.

- Punish people trying to scam you. Make it very clear you know what's going on and they just lost your business. Make it in a way so that it's known to other people selling to/working for you (works best for services in the nana/maestro realm).


You're most vulnerable during the first year when you need to buy things in a rush, find a rental, and don't have a mental price database. We're into our third year, and we know how to make better deals than some of our Chilean friends have the patience or savvy to get. They can't believe how little we paid our house (well, "little" relative to the size and location), now that's it's well on it's way to look good. But then they were appalled when they saw it during the renovations! I also have no shame bargaining, hard if need be - actually I quite like it.

El pescado wrote:The 100,000 for labor jumped to 250,000 and material prices went from 60 or 70,000 to 150,000. Now I´m thinkin what in gringo´s name is he smokin´...he just priced himself out of some work, which I was going to be helping him do anyway. He would even be using my truck & fuel to get the materials as well as my most of my tools and my manpower to get the material from ground to the 2nd floor.

This sounds so familiar, even the best references don't work out, and it happens to Chileans too. Our conclusion was that next time around we'll get a pre-heart-attacked and nervous broken-in house (one where the builder / owner has already dealt with all the stress) and do any minor adjustments ourselves or with brothers in law. Probably someplace built by Socovesa (think they were recommended by Charles?) or some other reputable operator. For what it's worth, I believe two construction companies were implicated as having their building suffer the worst damage in the earthquake. The names of both began with "P", not sure if there would be legal implications to being more specific here?

One is the word for "Peace" and they have a long record of complaints. Checkout reclamos.cl

The collapse / tip over in Concepcion begins with an S and definitely not the good S.

Don't be afraid to BARGAIN, if you feel like what they are offering you is expensive, just tell them strait up and tell them the price you think it should be. I do it with everyone, so much that my Chilean husband gets embarrassed. I have also gotten to the point where I argue over 20 cents. Also, get everything in writing, and don't be afraid to call the police when they don't want to honor whatever kind of contract you have.

With taxi drivers, if you have big bills, just ask before you get in the cab if they have change or before you hand over your money. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Also take notice of the meter, when its wrong don't be afraid to say something or get out of the cab without paying.

Speak like a Chilean. First get some lessons and then go out drinking with people until you can speak like they do. Don't look flustered if you don't understand what someone says, ask them to elaborate. Don't wear nice clothes when negotiating small jobs etc. Preferably know what you're talking about when discussing any work. You'll still get the gringo price occasionally; if you know you really have to go with some particular vendor then a Chilean proxy is a good safeguard.

James.

hbrown91 wrote:Don't be afraid to BARGAIN, if you feel like what they are offering you is expensive, just tell them strait up and tell them the price you think it should be.

Yes, the other problem seems to be the "gringos don't complain rule". That particularly goes for badly-executed labour. You have to be willing to lay down the law like a Chilean would, even with small things, or people will push their luck. If it's something really critical (eg. a substantial construction project), find a competent professional that you trust and pay them to oversee it.

James.

Be careful with the Chilean you send in to look at real estate.

Sending a Chilean from say Santiago, to the south of Chile, to talk to a seller is often times asking for more than just a Gringo tax. There can be an even bigger Santiago / 'your not from around here' tax in especially small communities in the South. We have been very bluntly told by locals, including the mayors offices in certain towns, they would rather have foreigners than Santiago Chileans buying in the town. Santiago Chileans, outside Santiago, have a reputation for being total asses and trashing the place. They can alienate people with their attitude far faster than most gringos with bad travel Spanish.

One tactic I have used, and it is far from a sure thing (you need to speak some Spanish and have feel for Chile), is to slam Santiago with a few jokes to open up the conversation with the locals. Even if they don't like foreigners, I can guarantee you their list of lifetime grievances against people from Santiago is much much longer. It is just basic negotiation and persuasion to find some sympathetic common ground to start. If they are from Santiago, then you might try the reverse; but, know your audience.

Also sending in your nana to negotiate a property deal is asking for trouble later in terms of misunderstandings, and them not knowing what to ask. Especially if your nana or whomever has never bought property before. There is also very subtle class issues you need to be certain you have a grip on.

So, yes as a foreigner it is better not to be the first point of contact when searching for property in most cases. It however is not as simple as just sending in any old Chilean simply because they are Chilean.