Chile Forum

I remember reading the story on the net back in the 90s but now cannot locate nada. And it may have been Larry Abraham not Gary Allen, not sure which because I can't find nada.

This looks promising in the destruction of freedom on the internet:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology- ... 49128.html

Introduced by New York State Sen. Thomas F. O'Mara (R—Big Flats), S6779 would require that any anonymous post online is subject to removal if the poster refuses to post — and verify — their legal name, their IP address, and their home address. From the (likely well intentioned) bill:
"A web site administrator upon request shall remove any comments posted on his or her web site by an anonymous poster unless such anonymous poster agrees to attach his or her name to the post and confirms that his or her IP address, legal name, and home address are accurate. All web site administrators shall have a contact number or e-mail address posted for such removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted."

Since it's a US state law, only those subject to the jurisdiction of New York would be liable to follow the law....except that ISPs might respond to government requests through that law. The effect is that every website hosted in the US would be ultimately responsible to follow it to some degree.

I am looking for a specific penalty for not following the law, but this law is actually an insertion into the existing Civil Rights Law. Who says that Civil Rights Laws are all about taking your rights away civilly.

Here is the new FBI electronic surveillance help desk for law enforcement:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-574397 ... ance-unit/

You know, rather amazing, that say 10 or 20 years ago I and lot of other people would be outraged at the idea that the FBI was keeping such a domestic surveillance project so secret. Now, it is just shrug of the shoulders U.S. gov biz and usual, and really one of the least threatening programs out there. By the way, big good morning big brother at the FBI, NSA, CIA, DEA, IRS, <insert any random three letters here, because I am sure they correspond to some agency>.

No one has stopped to question, if the very fact that they need such extensive surveillance resources might mean they have already gone too far. Not even the lawyer for the electronic freedom foundation interviewed in the article. She was concerned with why there was not more transparency and so on, but not questioning the need for it.

"The big question for me is why there isn't more transparency about what's going on?" asks Jennifer Lynch, a staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group in San Francisco. "We should know more about the program and what the FBI is doing. Which carriers they're working with -- which carriers they're having problems with. They're doing the best they can to avoid being transparent."

That is where you know it is now officially a police state. When the ACLU types (EFF is essentially the modern version of the ACLU) is no longer questioning the existence or the need for it.

(humour)

On this forum there has been mention of the US government developing "bugs" as small as insects, with the capability to fly, crawl and report data back to an operator.

We were walking by La Moneda the other day and noticed a higher density of "dogs" which were "sleeping" next to La Moneda than any other building we passed in Santiago Central. Perhaps they are tailoring of the same capability for the Chilean environment. Perhaps Piñera should be careful not to disclose too much information within earshot of any unknown visitors (dogs).

Andres wrote:(humour)

On this forum there has been mention of the US government developing "bugs" as small as insects, with the capability to fly, crawl and report data back to an operator.

We were walking by La Moneda the other day and noticed a higher density of "dogs" which were "sleeping" next to La Moneda than any other building we passed in Santiago Central. Perhaps they are tailoring of the same capability for the Chilean environment. Perhaps Piñera should be careful not to disclose too much information within earshot of any unknown visitors (dogs).

There are some low-tech solutions to high-tech surveillance. Google: ZeroHedge + "Guest Post: Low-Tech Solutions To High-Tech Tyranny" In any case, the West has been sliding to some (high-tech backed) form of fascism+neofeudalism for a while. The process has been accelerating for the last 10 years or so and, imho, will eventually spread out worldwide. Some call it New World (dis)Order... Ironically, at present, it seems you may enjoy more personal freedom and democracy in some Latin American countries than in the U.S., Canada, E.U. or Australia. Not so long ago it was the other way around.

More personal freedom in L.A. than in US? For the moment, yes. Do you really think this trend will not spread out from US/Europe to "The Rest", as is the case with so many other trends? Especially if you are a citizen of Europe or the US, and without a legitimate L.A. passport from a credible government that can & will protect you? In other words, will one run of places to run to? Perhaps (read:likely) if & when the fight for liberty is lost at home, it shall have been lost elsewhere as well. Look at history - do you think places like the US will tolerate an outflow of what is "theirs", in terms of either financial or human capital? Ask Chuck Schumer. Will the host country protect you? Try opening a bank account as a US citizen. Your only hope: Assimilate and become part of the protected ruling class, not a trivial goal in financial or cultural terms. My kids qualify for Chilean passports. Do yours?

Sad. My paternal grandfather's ancestors came from Southern Germany/Palatinate/Switzerland in the late 1600's, similar to the Anabaptists (Amish/Mennonites), sans that particular religious orientation. They were tied to the land (i.e. - serfs) as economic units who "belonged" to the manor (people belonged to the land and not vice-versa). In exchange for their economic (and eventually personal) liberty, the Lord of the Manor, possessed of superior blood and virtue, would protect them and act "for their own good". My ancestors illegally fled to England and then to the colonies, where they could own land, and not the other way around. Now the Republic is dying and the concept of someone else owning your economic person is returning, ala FBAR and FACTA, among other indicia.

For you Democrats, liberals, Social Democrats, Socialists and other Lefties: There can be no true liberty without the economic liberty that you so casually disregard and so arrogantly seize in the name of your supposedly superior motives & abilities. The fruit of my labor belongs to me or to you. I own the property, or it (or your god, The State) owns me. To fund your bankrupt inventions of "social security" and Medicare (along with a serious dollop of standing armies), our liberty is forfeit. Welcome to your Brave New World.

John Hyre

Trend will stop when the US dollar is no longer the world reserve currency. The US Empire will then quickly implode and the financial and military projection and power overreach will shrivel and be called home as the nation licks her bankrupt wounds and starts from scratch after much internal chaos.

Expect this turning point to be ugly as the cornered animal knows that is the only thing keeping the Empire Numero 1 and it may lash out in blind rage and fear before succumbing to natural forces.

Then we can shudder at what will replace it for the next 50 years.

Nice ant farm experiment they got going here!

EEUExpat,

We don't talk much.

One gentle point, well-intentioned, hopefully not a truce-breaker: Historically, collapsed republics can lead to despotism and real empires (the US is not yet either in my view, though it is headed that way), see Rome post-Caesar for one frightening example. I hope you are right, America is certainly capable of a turnaround, now or after some serious pain. Unfortunately, I fear you are not right. The decline in what the Founders called "virtue" is such that the lack of values will lead to even worse on a long-term and sustained basis. May we all live in interesting times, neh?


John Hye

Point understood, except that any despotism will be short lived due to the trouble of keeping the shock troops fed and happy. Many will go AWOL, take the other side, monkey wrench the remaining system, go mercenary, etc. when they see the central authority has cancer of the spine.

Truce alive and well.

Funny you mention that. I've been chatting with military buddies, both current and ex, and asked: Would the troops follow certain types of orders? Very mixed reactions.

John Hyre

JHyre wrote:... Historically, collapsed republics can lead to despotism and real empires (the US is not yet either in my view, though it is headed that way), see Rome post-Caesar for one frightening example....

What does it take to be an empire?

JHyre wrote:Funny you mention that. I've been chatting with military buddies, both current and ex, and asked: Would the troops follow certain types of orders? Very mixed reactions.

John Hyre

Professional militaries with a trained officer corps are typically loath to act against civilians or unarmed combatants. This was true in the American Civil War, the various campaigns against natives in the western USA, and Hitler's early attempts at genocide. The regular army was totally disgusted by the demands and many refused to participate. Of course this didn't stop the determined politicians, they resorted to the use of select units lead by sociopaths to " get the job done".