Chile Forum

OK, I agree raw capitalism needs some tweaking. The trick is the degree & form of tweaking, where I think we might disagree, quite a bit. Definitely a topic for infinite discussion. Perhaps best to disagree over booze. Barring something odd, we should be in Vina from mid-June to mid-August, where I hear tell that much booze is available there. Lots of places to drink, err, discuss proper degree of tweak with fellow travellers and those who have mapped other roads.

Why corporations are good/bad/neither.....big talk for another day, with one unfair Parthian shot: If government (the select of whom I spoke) would not offer to bail corporations out when they do stoopid things, corporations might do fewer stoopid things.

John Hyre

Back to the subject at hand for moment, in regards to the new government.

I had a rather interesting bit of off channel gossip come our way today. We were told about an entire office in a government related organization, that was mostly staffed by people on the center left that is abruptly going to be closed. The employees that work there have not even been officially notified yet.

I suspect that is not the only one happening right now.

I also believe this is in part the left's fault also. Lagos came out the other day and said anyone that worked with Pinera would have to resign from the party.

Irony, is that Pinera was forced to resign from his own party. I guess the charter had a clause that said that the president must be independent from all parties, and that if elected president they must resign from the party too.

I could see everyone on the left and right in their tit for tat handover suddenly causing an entire new party to form out of the mess. That is just way too many homeless politicians, and too many people that care more about their jobs than their politics mixing around the system.

I will try again to post this message and forgive me if this isn't the proper thread. I read in the Santiago Times (only to keep up with the leftist garbage) that President elect Pinera is proposing to endorse OAS chief Insulza for anther term. What crap!!! What Pinera needs to do is oppose his relection and send him to exile deep in the heart of the Bolivian mess. Insulza is only a crony of Chavez and his gang. Also see that Bolivia is cozying up to Pinera. Pinera has only one term to try at least in purging the socialist from the ranks and steer Chili on a proper course.

That said, why encourage Insulza position of power while he returned to Chile to campaigned for Pinera's opponent. Name of the game is "gotcha". Let the discussion begin!!!

Stang

stang33 wrote:I will try again to post this message and forgive me if this isn't the proper thread. I read in the Santiago Times (only to keep up with the leftist garbage) that President elect Pinera is proposing to endorse OAS chief Insulza for anther term. What crap!!! What Pinera needs to do is oppose his relection and send him to exile deep in the heart of the Bolivian mess. Insulza is only a crony of Chavez and his gang. Also see that Bolivia is cozying up to Pinera. Pinera has only one term to try at least in purging the socialist from the ranks and steer Chili on a proper course.

That said, why encourage Insulza position of power while he returned to Chile to campaigned for Pinera's opponent. Name of the game is "gotcha". Let the discussion begin!!!

Stang

Stang, you might want to calm down. If you want to learn something about Chile.... I think that Pinera is certainly not stupid and I think most Chileans are quite proud to have a Chilean at the OAS. I believe Pinera actually said at first he didn't want Insulza at the OAS and has changed his mind(or said he had) which would have to do with politics. Chilean politics is much more complicated than the mainstream media would have you believe. If you think Chile has taken a hard right, you will be disappointed.

Pinera would be wise to let iInsulza (classic condorito character BTW) hang tight and slowly...tighten the small bueatyful leash he has around his nether regions..classic latin american gambit...and then change it for another, while insulza tries to transfer funds to the swiss accounts...which he will not have time to do while consuela maria paz, his daughter, wonders why she can't go to Smith this year....its the tip of the of the sword and all those that dangle on it.

p

I think this phone conversation between 2 petty criminals says it all. And I quote from El Mercurio:

-¿Aló? Oye, salió Piñera, está hablando en la tele. Va a hacer cárceles en las islas y yo soy el primer hueón que va ir a para allá".

-Sí, nos va a poner más años que la chu...".

Yup! the new president will certainly make a difference.

OAS is a toothless tiger designed to keep all the bad boys in the neighborhood squabbling amongst themselves and feeling like they really have a say in things. It the political version of the Monroe Doctrine to keep Latin American countries from getting too cozy with other countries around the World or forming any really strong regional alliances. Basically it is the Americas version of the U.N., all show and no go.

Not to hijack a thread, but I just caught el P's mention of my avatar!

Back on topic and pardon my ignorance, but does the OAS do anything but make proclamations? The UN has a big budget and at least a peacekeeping force, albeit not one really under their control. Does the OAS even negotiate trade agreements? Again, I'm not up to speed on their current activites, but I'd have to second Admin's take on it that they're a paper tiger.

The OAS is a program...routine...set-up where by the US can and is able to corral the highest ears of the naughty boyz in whatever particular country...you see, in country, they don't always pick up the phone, and for the gringo who likes to clear his desk at the end of the week, it always leaves things dangl'n....the OAS brings it all together and makes it so that US policy can be sounded off on, usually before it becomes official.

US negociators can play one group against another and to its own advantage...so its like "...Well, you know Peru, has been asking for the f-14 now for awhile and CHile has the f-18 but with out the rocket pod attachments...so maybe if we get this vote done now and you boys help us out at the UN vote later, we can see if the USAF had some surplus fixed wing and help out our latin brothers...okay lets recess for lunch and we'll see you back in 3 hours..." Plenty of time to make deals amongst the fellow latins, get gifts for the missus and the chillin's, hang with the mistress that got flown in and maybe even make it too a a turkish bath for a rub/down rub out with some no name from the pobla...oh, yeah and here's my expense account for the week...

Just after 9/11 had barely calmed down...the OAS was due for voting in the new leader...they were meeting in New Orleans I think and the LAtins were not going for bushwahckers idea to go to Iaq....Chile's was leading the pack in the general area for the UN against such action...the voting was down to peru, chile and venezuala to lead the OAS...several votes and suddenly Chile's insulza comes out as the winner and three days later Chile makes the changing vote(CHile was taking its turn in the security council of the UN at the time) Also, 7 US de-commisioned destroyers were set to go to Mexico during this time and went to CHile instead...as well the f-16 rocket pods for Peru were canceled in the name of "...regional peace and security in the region..."


The harsh political realities of the hemisphere no ma'....and don't think the CHileans weren't glad when teddy Kennedy died...

p

Laura55llc wrote:

stang33 wrote:I will try again to post this message and forgive me if this isn't the proper thread. I read in the Santiago Times (only to keep up with the leftist garbage) that President elect Pinera is proposing to endorse OAS chief Insulza for anther term. What crap!!! What Pinera needs to do is oppose his relection and send him to exile deep in the heart of the Bolivian mess. Insulza is only a crony of Chavez and his gang. Also see that Bolivia is cozying up to Pinera. Pinera has only one term to try at least in purging the socialist from the ranks and steer Chili on a proper course.

That said, why encourage Insulza position of power while he returned to Chile to campaigned for Pinera's opponent. Name of the game is "gotcha". Let the discussion begin!!!

Stang

Stang, you might want to calm down. If you want to learn something about Chile.... I think that Pinera is certainly not stupid and I think most Chileans are quite proud to have a Chilean at the OAS. I believe Pinera actually said at first he didn't want Insulza at the OAS and has changed his mind(or said he had) which would have to do with politics. Chilean politics is much more complicated than the mainstream media would have you believe. If you think Chile has taken a hard right, you will be disappointed.

excellent laura, probably the first time that i read a gringo (gringa in your case) talking with absolutely sense about chilean politic. no offense to the other guys, but you diste en el clavo. most of gringos (mostly yanks) cant understand what is live in a unknown country. there is some kind of pride with insulza in the OAS. also most of the chileans (not commies but many right wingers) were very proud when Lagos (former chilean president) didnt support USA in the United Nations security council in the attack to iraq. and time give them reason to that. that doesnt mean that chileans are against USA, but they like to know that we live in a independent country from time to time.

I don't give Chile much credit for that one. Everyone knew it was stupid, and Chile knew that the U.S. was going to muster some leverage to force it. It was political slight of hand to get the Free Trade agreement moving, and at the same time win some domestic points with a mostly left base that opposed it. Chile really did not have many chips on the table to loose one way or the other.

I seemed to ignite a good discussion relating to Insulza and his pending reappointment to the OAS chief. My point was read correctly by el p and incorectly by some others. I will repeat what I said earlier that Insulzsa is a socialist with strong ties to the leftist government in Chile as well as Chavez's cronies in Bolivia, Equador, Nicaragua, and others such as Lula and the K's in Argentina.

Let's not forget Obama & Insulza in the Honduras fiasco. "Two peas in a pod". Some need to bone up on their Latin politics. Having lived in Colombia and Brasil, with four Brasilian children and two Colombian daughters, I know a little about Latin politics. All I can say is "don't plan on Obama backing you up" Case in point is Colombia and Panama's pending free trade agreements.

I agree with Charles that the OAS is a toothless tiger, but don't throw the tiger any red meat, he's liable to want and eat more then you intended. The OAS needs a new leader that can be independant of the USA, Obama and other leftist or rightist governmaents. Expand your politics to include all of Latin America.

My personal opinion is that Chile would be in the same boat as the other rogue Latin states had it not been for Pinochet (though I didn't approve of some of his cleansing methods). That statement should stir the pot.!!!!!

Stang

I don't give him any credit either. Chile could have done it without the dictatorship, although it might have taken a bit longer.

The OAS for Chile is about keeping the squabbling neighbors sedated and out of their hair. The biggest thing holding Chile back, is the way the neighbors have a way of trying drag them down with them.

Pinera is just announcing his cabinet on TV.

Definitely not a bunch of under-qualified clueless appointees.

We got a bunch of Harvard economist, U. of Chicago economist, a couple of U. of Minnesota (what the hell they doing in MN), a couple of MIT grads, one woman that went to grad school in Berlin. Of course almost all of them graduated from U. of Chile or Catolica at some point. You basically don't get to be anyone in Chile without going to one of those two schools. I think there is only one or two that did not study outside the country as Minister of defense and Minister of culture. Lots of people from Temuco or the IX region (3-4 I think).

Looks like over half are economist of some form or another, one is a 32 year old Harvard PhD that worked for the World Bank.

Pinera slapped down hard the Pinochet extreme right UDI type supporters with his appointment of Lavinet as minister of defense. Lavinet is a Christian Democracy Left member, but is resigning from the party this evening at 6 pm.

Pinera was concerned that the Pinochet vultures that have been circling for some 20+ years waiting for a right government to come back in to reassert the influence of the military in politics, were going to eat away at his power especially in terms of taking control of defense related issues and the budget. By putting someone from the left in there, he is clearly telling them they are not going to have any input. If they do not get a foot in the door in defense issues, they are not going to get much in way of influence anywhere else.

Overall it looks like the count of cabinet members is 4 from the left, 4 from the right, and the rest are independents. Both the members from left and right it looks like are either resigning from their parties on their own or the parties are forcing them out for joining Pinera.

The funny one was the pick of minister of exterior that was the head of Fallabela. The poster Child in the eyes of Peru of the takeover and exploitation of Peru by Chilean companies. Between Lan and Fallabela, the Peruvians must be thinking that Chile is planning hostile economic takeover of their country (they might be right).

There is still one big surprise coming I believe in the form of a new cabinet position, and we have a fairly good idea of whom and what it will be from the whispers in the wind; but, I unfortunately am not permitted to spill the beans on that one. Besides if I did, I would likly jinks it anyway and it would never happen.