Chile Forum

Damn it. I said I have copyright debate fatigue, and was not going to get in to this.

First, let's stick to just copyrights, otherwise this whole debate gets blown out of proportion. Patents are a whole different mess. Closely related, but a few example of the current problems of illegal patent right explosion can be found here: http://w2.eff.org/patent/

We can go on and on debating the moral ambiguities of copyrights, but enforcing laws with swat teams and battering rams designed for printing press age in the digital age is absurd and very wrong. At best it is just government corruption. That anyone would literally have their door broken in and a gun put to their head over violating what is fundamentally a contract / civil matter is sick. Perhaps a case could be made for it being appropriate when some factory is illegally turning out millions of copies and court order needs to be enforced and there is an expectation of violence, but then they are likly also doing much more dangerous things anyway; but doing it to a kid in the basement over an mp3 collection is just sick. When no one's life is physically in danger, put the guns away. Just an even slightly more morally wrong is strong arming developing countries with vital life and death technology and trade agreements, because people are selling a few CD's on the street is sick beyond words.

Here is the practical problem. Copyright laws are grossly out of sink with modern technology. They are all fine and dandy perhaps when we are talking about printing presses and 8 track tapes, but the very nature of digital media in any form is such that in order for it to work, trillions of copies have to be made every millisecond for modern technology to work.

Here is an illustration of an illustration of the problem (not really a problem, nor do I care, and yes it is o.k. people). I also own all kinds of copyrights and other registered IP. For example, the allchile.net logo at the top of the page is registered with the U.S. library of congress. You are all guilty of illegally steeling my logo repeatedly every time you view my sight. So is your ISP, so is the catch above them, and so on. I authorize the public to view my logo on my server, not for everyone to keep a cached copy on their hard drive indefinitely, and load it without visiting my website whenever they like (that is what your browser does 9 out of 10 times every time you visit this site, or at least it should if your browser is working correctly). You do have a cached copy on your hard drive right now that is strictly speaking in violation of my copyrights. Does it seem appropriate that such a violation would rise to the level of someone kicking in your door and taking you away to jail because of that? Or perhaps taking away your home, your kids college fund, whatever? Is it a reasonable proportionate response?

Now, you might argue that you are using it for personal use or whatever ( Don't worry, I really don't care and understand that is what you are really doing it with it or I would not put it on the internet ). So, fine on the personal use front. Google keeps a cached copy also,displays it to the public, and in fact makes money off it (hell, likly more than I ever made off of it). No one is going to kick in the doors at Google's headquarters and drag the CEO away for it, no matter how much I complain. Chances are Google would not even answer my email if I was inclined to try and collect. I would need to spend millions just to try and get Google to give me the time of day about it. The issue of copyrights comes down to those with the Gold making the rules problem.

Copyrights laws are being badly exploited to exploit the public. They have not been about protecting the artist or the social good for a very long time. So anyone that thinks your copyrights are equal to Google's copyrights, is very delusional about just about everything in your life. All copyrights are equal, just some copyrights are more equal than others (dam I think I just violated Orwell's family's copyrights in some form or another, I will turn myself in directly).

If I violate someone's copyrights directly or accidentally the damages, in spite of the U.S. copyright trolls and politicians best attempts to make it out as something more, are really pennies if anything. Even worse, in the last few years what they have often tried to criminalize or convince the public is a crime is in fact very much fair use. It is like saying because I ran a red light, I am therefore responsible for every car accident that has ever happened or will ever happen. Or that people that smoke pot, are responsible for everyone that has ever died of cocaine.

Yet, the same people that argue all this "right is right, wrong is wrong" about copyrights would have no problem visiting a U.S. public library or lending a book to a friend. How about inviting some friends over to watch a movie or the super bowl on your big screen tv? Did you go to a bar and watch the super bowl? Did you pay your copyright fees for all of those uses? How far does that black and white interpretation of the law extend?

As for justification, opposing immoral laws is not immoral. That is what billions of people around the World are doing every time they exchange a copy of a movie, a mp3, a whatever, even if their first thought is to simply enjoy something on the cheap. Neither copyright holders (most anyway) nor are the copyright laws providing any reasonable alternative to a problem that is just going to keep growing. Time to fix copyright laws to the reality of 2012.

Well I have copyright fatigue myself, but I don't think most people realize that when you buy many computer games and other software, that disclosure you agree to-and nobody reads-will tell you it is illegal to even lend your game. So you cannot lend your own property legally, among other questionable contract language-which makes me wonder if we have property rights at all. Now they are selling DVDs you can't copy-even into your computer which is where I store the cds I paid for because they are easier to carry around. Or at least legally you can't have a digital copy.

" A Danish man named Henrik Anderson is fed up with laws that forbid the removal of DRM. Like many careful folks, Henrik wanted to back-up his entire DVD collection, in case one of his favorite movies was one day scratched. Danish law -- and the law in most Western countries -- forbids people from tampering with anti-copying Digital Rights Management technology. Henrik wasn't down for this: he feels that it should be within his rights to backup DVDs he legally paid for.

Being a brave fellow, he has been trying to get himself arrested for breaking copyrights. "

The gist is they didn't want arrest him, they just want the law in place to use as they see fit. As long as you believe only criminals get arrested.

The $2 cds I spoke about were $2 in the US at Bestbuy. A month later, I'm at a mall in Chile and we go into a cd store. And that $2 cd was selling for 10,000 pesos. That is price gouging. I think unethical as well as stupid business sense. Did they not know about the internet?

The girl scout video, I'd like to slap those girls that stole the money and go on to talk as if that was ok.

It is interesting to see the argument that corporate rights are violated and this somehow equates to individual rights. In light of the recent US Supreme Court ruling-not just because of the unlimited spending but that the Supreme Court has clarified for us that corporations have individual first amendment rights. That individuals will have stronger rights because the corporate rights are protected. Sure we will.

I posted before seeing admin's post which was better than mine

But his point is good that we are all "criminals"and likely don't know it. When everyone is a criminal under a law, I figure a law is wrong.

“The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law free.”

“It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for law, so much as a respect for right.”


Henry David Thoreau

Well, I've gotten some entertainment value out of this scuffle thus far.

To kind of bring this back on topic, I speculate Chile has put itself in an armlock.

GIVEN:

(1) The FTA with the USA (DMCA nirvana land) AND
(2) Now membership in the OECD (Expanded DMCA-similar nirvana land)

Chile will have to appear to be "working" on this "problem" more than they have in the past (as if current resources don't have enough issues getting a handle on skyrocketing petty crime, increasing robbery violence, anarchist activities, etc.).

It is like the USA-Chile tax treaty / tax sharing information agreement that flows from such deals.

I do see a collision coming between the banda ancha providers and the Chile legal system over this and more publicity "examples" made out of some young people making and selling illegal DVDs.

Laura, I can't believe we're agreeing on something as that hasn't happened since the W Bush days.

If people feel so strongly about this, they should be making plans to boycott countries like Chile which appear to be out of control given their populations clearly do not see the same black and white in this issue.

Chile will give lip service to the IP laws of other OECD countries (in practice, USA) but has much migger fish to fry on its plate (yay mixed metaphors that work together!). The evolution of US copyright law over the last decades is a perfect example of state-sponsored capitalism driven by a paid-for Democrat Congress (in charge most of the time, and bought by trial lawyers and other special interests). The opposite of a free market in a state of law, in the name of a free market state of law. What a scam.

I make my living with publishing yet I'm thoroughly disgusted by the parody which IP has become. Admin really explained well the corruption underlying the whole thing.

Laura55llc wrote:I posted before seeing admin's post which was better than mine

But his point is good that we are all "criminals"and likely don't know it. When everyone is a criminal under a law, I figure a law is wrong.

“The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law free.”

“It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for law, so much as a respect for right.”


Henry David Thoreau

I hope you sent a check before posting that quote, and filled in the proper copyright forms in triplicate after having your attorney review the contract to insure the contract was not in violation of its own copyrights in all international and local jurisdictions including outer and inner Mongolia, Tim BUCK TWO, and NEVER NEVER land, and were properly posted in all 150 dialects of the Indian languages of Guatemala and in Brail versions for the blind to insure that everyone got the notice that you are only going to use it under fair use and thus should not have to pay, while quoting the original and samples of all modifications you made since modifying it?

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Laura, I can't believe we're agreeing on something as that hasn't happened since the W Bush days.

Hahaha-I did agree with that you that one time Don't remember the topic but there was talk of singing we are the world

admin wrote:

Laura55llc wrote:I posted before seeing admin's post which was better than mine

But his point is good that we are all "criminals"and likely don't know it. When everyone is a criminal under a law, I figure a law is wrong.

“The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law free.”

“It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for law, so much as a respect for right.”


Henry David Thoreau

I hope you sent a check before posting that quote, and filled in the proper copyright forms in triplicate after having your attorney review the contract to insure the contract was not in violation of its own copyrights in all international and local jurisdictions including outer and inner Mongolia, Tim BUCK TWO, and NEVER NEVER land, and were properly posted in all 150 dialects of the Indian languages of Guatemala and in Brail versions for the blind to insure that everyone got the notice that you are only going to use it under fair use and thus should not have to pay, while quoting the original and samples of all modifications you made since modifying it?

Good point-I am searching for the address to submit the check