Chile Forum

by **jehturner** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:05 pm

Yes, I think expectations may be changing a bit on the kitchen front. My new 140m^2 house came with a generous-sized kitchen, including a breakfast table, with a door opening to the dining area / living room. There is no space wasted on closets for storing a live-in maid when she's finished cooking either; more like a typical middle-class European or American place. We were quite surprised when we first looked around, but the builder has made hundreds of the houses and they seem rather popular amongst the cuico-minus-1 class.

James.

by **curious** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:09 pm

admin wrote:Well, a couple of thoughts, and please don't take this the wrong way as I am hoping to save you from a investment train wreck.

Assuming you are producing this stuff in the States, the basic problem is it's too expensive. I don't even know what your prices are, but I can already tell you ( unless you are giving the furniture away ) with a high probability you will have trouble either competing with the really really cheap imports from Asia that are sold at most malls and department stores or with the really cheap (generally low quality) furniture produced in Chile. Don't forget to throw in all the cheap furniture produced in neighboring Latin American countries, and the competition here for furniture would just crush you unless you are basically reselling their furniture already.

Now you might argue that your product is high quality, but the reality is that the market here does not care about quality because the culture really does not care about quality ( speaking of the majority of the market anyway ). They want cheap first, looks second, and quality is the absolutely last thing on anyone's mind. Essentially there is a very very small market for anything that cost over say about a $1000-2000 US (most Chileans likly do not spend over $2000 over 10 years or more on furniture), and people in general do not buy furniture like Americans. They don't for example replace their entire house full of furniture just because they don't match the drapes or they are a couple years old. The portion of the market with money, taste, and desiring to buy high quality furniture is fairly microscopic and also fairly saturated.

We are talking about a country of 15 million people, only 1-2 million would likly be your market (long story about credit, money, affluence, geography), and everyone else is already chasing those 1-2 million customer base that likly spend only about 10-20% of what Americans do on furniture anyway given a similar population and demographics.

Basically, if you are not already selling to big chains such as Wall Mart in the States and can provide big volume at super super low prices, you are going to have a hard time even getting your foot in the door in Chile. Which by the way means also need to get in to Wall Mart (A.K.A Lider) in Chile or one of the other big department store chains that buy by the boat load from Asia.

In general, my take would be that trying to sell furniture in Chile would be likly the worst possible buisness venture someone could undertake.

Many thanks for that useful response, which makes good sense.
I'd like to ask you a similar question from a different point of view.

I currently import and distribute cheap to middle end furniture from the Far East into a European country of 4 million people. I buy directly from cheap factories in inner China (I speak a little Mandarin) and Vietnam which supply Walmart etc..
Furniture is the business I know best so I'm looking at how I could set up as an importer in Chile and do something in the market, better than it is being currently being done right now.

To give you an idea of what I mean, for a typical fabric sofa at one of the bigger stores, I could buy it in China at a fraction of this price and profitably wholesale it to this retailer for less than 1/2 of what they are charging for it.

I doubt all the retailers who supply chinese made furniture in China buy all of the furniture directly themselves. There must be some wholesalers but perhaps they are not particularly professional or well priced?

Do you think there is a market for a company to import very cheap from China/Vietnam/Malaysia and sell to the retailers in Central Chile?

Alternatively, I could buy directly from the Far East and retail myself to take better margin and sell at lower prices, however I prefer wholesale.

I value your opinion from reading from reading your other intelligent posts on this useful forum and look forward to your response.

Thanks,

David.

(post was edited to remove link)

by **El Chupacabra** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:23 pm

otravers wrote:. There's no market for $6K fridges outside of the US that I'm aware of. .

Try Canada.

It's not uncommon to have your kitchen equiped with high end appliances. (wolf, sub zero, maytag, whirlpool, etc..)

by **otravers** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:34 pm

Isn't US/Canada just one big market for most intents and purposes?

by **admin** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:04 pm

Warning: any new user with less than 25 posts, posting links in this thread will be banned. No questions, as this is the sort of spam magnet subject that brings the spammers out of the woodwork from all corners of the internet.

by **patagoniax** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:19 pm

.
On the subject of furniture, we have several sources of furniture makers down here, and even the worst of them beats the plastic laminate imported pressboard stuff.

There is Cid, for example, whose quality will never let you forget that you're at the tail end of some third-world country, but he allows no melamines, laminate, or veneers anywhere in the shop. I use him for planing my floor planks (at left in this picture, next to the green planer) -- not for furniture. But if you have him build something, bring several people to help move it. Solid lenga furniture can be heavy, and it's also good for stopping or slowing 9mm FMJ bullets, something you should always take into account when shopping for wooden furniture.

Cid's shop:

Then there are the furniture makers for Famapal in Punta Arenas. They make some nice stuff, considering where we are. Solid stuff, too. Lenga, not unlike cherry wood in North America. Prices can be pretty reasonable for solid wood furniture, too. My tables, chairs, wooden stairs, and several doors and door-frames came from Famapal. If you are planning to build and/or furnish down here, they are the place to start looking.

For lenga wood characteristics, see the bottom of this Famapal page: http://www.famapal.cl/especies-es.html

Not a good foto but it shows a typical Famapal lenga-wood "rustica" door of the type I have at my house.

: famapal door.jpg (28.18 KiB) Viewed 190 times

My kitchen table and chairs from Famapal

Then we have the politecnica school, and the jail, which draw their populations from the same segment of the population. Millions have been invested in teaching useful trades like carpentry and woodworking at the politecnica, so that when those students grow up and are sent to the local jail, they will transition easily to one of the jail's most useful products: wooden furniture. There is a process, a bit tricky and not known to many outsiders, whereby you can contract with the jail to have your custom furniture built. The prices are reasonable and the quality is usually not too bad. One of my best construction guys had some of his furniture built there. It's not a steady situation, for various reasons. One is that the better wood-workers come and go, and eventually finish their sentences and are released, to become repeat offenders. Another reason is that the power tools at the jail are not always well maintained, and there is often not a great deal of interest in keeping the machinery in top order. You may find this opportunity in other, typically smaller cities, but I can't speak for other than Puerto Natales.

by **Another Joe** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:47 am

admin wrote:In Chile, a kitchen is traditionally viewed as a place for the servants and it is not a place to entertain guest. Out of site out mind space. Thus, why you will almost never see a kitchen in Chile open to the rest of the house.

PUHLEEEEZE, don't tell my wife. I'll never get her on the boat. She just loves her open kitchen, island, etc..

by **patagoniax** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:19 am

admin wrote:In Chile, a kitchen is traditionally viewed as a place for the servants and it is not a place to entertain guest. Out of site out mind space. Thus, why you will almost never see a kitchen in Chile open to the rest of the house.

Traditionally. As in 40 years ago. And those still clinging to those days. Practices often depend on the house. The older and clunkier the house, the less it may be physically suitable for socialising.

Down here there are few times when the kitchen is not part of the acceptable gathering space, if a house is big enough to have a decent kitchen. In some older and smaller houses you can't comfortably fit more than one or two in the kitchen. Obviously if the kitchen is a trainwreck then the host isn't going to want anyone in there. And in some places if you are not yet "family" then you might not be immediately welcome in the kitchen.

For one thing, a decently large patagonian kitchen is often the warmest place in the house (esp the cook-stove), so people tend to gravitate there. In many newer houses here the kitchen is built to be both an attractive space, and large enough for several people, something you didn't see so much 40 years ago. I've stayed in remote residenciales along the Carretera Austral, in places like Murta, south of Coyhaique, and in urban residenciales in Punta Arenas, where the extended kitchen is the only place -- there is often no separate dining or sitting room. And if you step into the hallway on the way to your room, you immediately freeze. Likewise, in some houses in my village, the kitchen and the dining area are essentially integrated. There is no out of sight or mind because it's ... right there. Of course this is not true of all houses, but there is certainly a trend down here toward the "attractive kitchen" - in both senses of the word.

Even with the people I know in Ñuñoa (university instructors, engineers, and similar) and their "traditional" homes 20 or more years old, with smaller kitchens, there is rarely any attempt to shoo anyone out of the kitchen to socialise elsewhere.

So yes, there are places where the "traditional" idea of not allowing anyone in the kitchen may be observed, but don't get the idea that this is universal.

Por lo que valga,

by **FrankPintor** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:01 am

admin wrote:In Chile, a kitchen is traditionally viewed as a place for the servants and it is not a place to entertain guest. Out of site out mind space. Thus, why you will almost never see a kitchen in Chile open to the rest of the house.

Just been thinking, but out of say 10 houses I've been in in the Valdivia - Lago Ranco region, maybe 2 have had the kitchen out of sight. All the others were either open-plan or separated by some kind of bar-cum-serving-hatch.

In fact the one that I built was doubly unconventional in that the kitchen was open-plan and had no separation to the dining room, but it was also on the 1st (well 2nd for Chileans) floor. This was for to allow more light in the spaces that will normally be used during the day (being in a a city, the ground floor space is surrounded by walls and so on) and was copied from a Dutch design (if you think that Chileans are illogical, how about the Dutch putting the living space on the 1st floor and the bedrooms on the ground floor in an area that is going potentially to flood to 10m?).

The bottom line is that if you're building yourself in Chile you can specify whatever you like to the builder, the devil is going to be in the detail of the execution, not in the layout of the house.

by **Eileen** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:32 pm

Since this has become the kitchen thread... when we renovated our kitchen, it took extensive arguing to get the contractor use 3/4 inch plywood for the interior construction, and REAL wood for the doors. He just couldn't believe that we would want anything but pressboard. It took even longer to convince him that we actually wanted WIDE baseboard trim in all of the rooms, and not the skimpy 1-2".

As to American made furniture, I am so glad that we moved the casegoods (cabinets, tables, etc.) We had brought some leather chairs, but bought the leather sectional at Rosen. Big Mistake! High price and low quality. Two years later, and it looks ready for the trash heap. The leather was about as thin as wrapping paper. Our Basset and Kittenger leather has survived years of three boys and countless dogs.

by **nenino** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:15 pm

I know this may be a dead thread, but could not find it anywhere else. Does anyone know of a place to buy more commerical type appliances, than those big dogs at Maigas? I do not need a "beautiful" kitchen, but I need a functional one. I am more the stainless steel work surface type of gal, but I want cooktops, deep fryer, frig, etc. that are workhorses and sturdy enough not to tip over if you blow on them. Any resources out there? I will be in Norte Chico, but trips to Santiago are fine.

by **wendyann** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:10 am

admin wrote:Gloria very nice house. I like that kind of classic look with those hints of rustic around.

Yea, I thought about the kitchen problem for several years. In building a house in Chile, how do you get the benefits of an American style kitchen that is open and shared, while at the same time maintaining the home value in the Chilean market that demands a hidden kitchen? The best solution I have come up with is big double doors that allow you the flexibility to open up the kitchen when needed or isolate it as needed.

I realize this is an old discussion (and this is my first post here), but as an interior designer I can tell you there are several ways you can make a kitchen go both ways. One major one would be to have a large pass-through that can be closed off with shuttered doors or the like, as well as the doors you have mentioned. You could also do a completely mobile folding wall like the kind of patio doors that open up the entire wall of the house, if you've got the space to slide the panels to. It's also possible to build the whole kitchen so that it completely disappears behind cabinet doors and sliding surfaces that cover the range and sink, etc., although that's not quite the same thing as entirely hiding the kitchen the way most I've seen in the residential photos I've come across in my research on housing.

Chile Forum

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Re: American Furniture in Chile

Who is online

Need Help In Chile?

Phone From Outside Chile: 1-917-470-9653 ( USA to Chile)
In Chile Land Line: (56) 65 421 024
Cell Phone 747 97974 (From a Cell Phone in Chile dial with no other numbers)

Chile Forum

Who is online

Need Help In Chile?

Phone From Outside Chile: 1-917-470-9653 ( USA to Chile) In Chile Land Line: (56) 65 421 024 Cell Phone 747 97974 (From a Cell Phone in Chile dial with no other numbers)

Phone From Outside Chile: 1-917-470-9653 ( USA to Chile)
In Chile Land Line: (56) 65 421 024
Cell Phone 747 97974 (From a Cell Phone in Chile dial with no other numbers)