Chile Forum

Honduras' "deposed" president had it coming. He was following in the footsteps of his mentor in Venezuela and attempting to gradually seize power and destroy democracy by selectively using the mob to undermine, and ultimately destroy, his country's laws in the naked pursuit of power. The army did its lawful duty after the lawful system of checks and balances (legislature and courts) kicked in. A demagogue who led a mob in a violent act against his counry's military (which was following lawful orders in re referendum) got what he deserved - or perhaps less than he deserved, as he is still producig carbon dioxide. Shame on Chile and the US for supporting the Chavez wannabe and his usurpation of powers that were not his to take. Kudos to Hodurans who are upholding civilized laws against the baying of the mob, including the mob's sycophant in the White House.

Great article here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124623220955866301.html here http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/29/zelaya ... riega.html and here http://www.nypost.com/seven/06302009/po ... 176799.htm

John Hyre, supporting the "coup" that never was

Just a knee jerk political reaction internationally to the fact that the military got involved in any domestic policing operation, and thus it must be an illegal coupe. In most Latin American countries, the military and the police are essentially the same organization. The military did not take over the country, they just evicted the president and the next in line took over. As Latin American politics go, that was pretty democratic and orderly succession.

I've been trying to follow this somewhat as well... The condemnations seem naive, in this instance, because obviously the system of checks and balances was being overthrown with violence (the mob of supporters). That being said, if the US or anyone else said it was okay, it opens up the door to a slipper slope, and coups that are REALLY coups could point at Honduras and say its the same thing. I'm sure that as individuals Obama and Clinton think it justified (I hope)... hilarious how folks like Chavez and other communists are trying to twist it like it was a coup against democracy, when it was just the opposite, though.

Have to keep a close eye on this one, see how things go.

No fundamental disagreement here. I simply think we are in for more ill-considered "knee-jerk" reactions from the same crew....reactions that will generally stick. I will be most interested to see if & how the knee-jerkers retract, or change their take on this situation. Perhaps US influence on Honduras has been a good thing - are we even allowed to suggest such a thing?

The real knee-jerk reaction from Hillary, Obama et al is the usual Carteresque line "Leftists like Castro & Chavez good, America's non-leftist allies & their militaries bad". Small surprise there.

John Hyre

all time the reasons seems to be super strongs, but at the end of the day nothing is so serious to broke the normality. the chilean coup was 10 times bigger and dangeroust than hondurean one, but was almost the same. some politics (rigth wing) said that the country was in way to hell etc. just lies, there are constitutional or non traditional ways to kept out a president as you gringos made with Nixon. US goverment is actually doing extremly good and being the first american goverment ever who has been intelligent in his relations wiith latin america (maybe since XIX century).

no más golpes en latinoamérica. nunca más, bajo ninguna razón. no more right or left coups in latin america. the next step is a OEA confference and send multilatin armed force there as they did in haiti. ussualy USA was back of those coups but i think this time USA is innocent. USA is this time in the good side, as france always is. maybe you dont know but france is still a strong world power but they allways play in the smart role, all the world loves france all the world hates USA (is just a way of say dont take it literally)

I would keep an eye on China messing around in Central America. They have not made much progress in South America, but Central America is poor and the politics very corrupt. A no strings attached big check from China, buys a whole lot of influence. The Chinese also are very good about providing "presents" to officials.

JHyre wrote:Honduras' "deposed" president had it coming. He was following in the footsteps of his mentor in Venezuela and attempting to gradually seize power and destroy democracy by selectively using the mob to undermine, and ultimately destroy, his country's laws in the naked pursuit of power.

John Hyre, supporting the "coup" that never was

Yes, sure sounds like democracy has since flourished

TEGUCIGALPA (Reuters) - Honduras has shut down television and radio stations since an army coup over the weekend, in a media blackout than has drawn condemnation from an international press freedom group.

Shortly after the Honduran military seized President Manuel Zelaya and flew him to Costa Rica on Sunday, soldiers stormed a popular radio station and cut off local broadcasts of international television networks CNN en Espanol and Venezuelan-based Telesur, which is sponsored by leftist governments in South America.

A pro-Zelaya channel also was shut down.

The few television and radio stations still operating on Monday played tropical music or aired soap operas and cooking shows.

JHyre wrote:. . . . The real knee-jerk reaction from Hillary, Obama et al is the usual Carteresque line "Leftists like Castro & Chavez good, America's non-leftist allies & their militaries bad". Small surprise there. . . .

What surprises me is continued American hunger to intervene. I'd have thought that with defeat in Vietnam and disgrace in Iraq the American powers that be would have been satiated.

Yet I still hear rough-made excuses -- that, for example, the Honduran constitution is "undemocratic" -- to press for internal changes in another country.

Personally, I'm baffled that this got such a strong response from the US, and the Iranian election didn't.

'Surprises me, too -- though "our" response to Iran has been stronger than justifiable, I think (being less judgmental and much less interventionist than president or Congress).

Boogeymen are great for the arms, security, gov contractor businesses which now dominate what is left of the American economic machine.

Oh, oh, I used the word "American".

Don't worry. No one complains if you use "American" in negative context, but everyone is an American when you use it in a positive context without including them.

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Oh, oh, I used the word "American".

Aside from betraying your origins, EE.UU. . . . (hmm . . . might your "handle" do the same?)

admin wrote:I would keep an eye on China messing around in Central America. They have not made much progress in South America, but Central America is poor and the politics very corrupt. A no strings attached big check from China, buys a whole lot of influence. The Chinese also are very good about providing "presents" to officials.

Correct. China already paid several LatAm countries to make they stop recognizing Taiwan as a separate country.