Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby otravers » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:40 pm

Again, my nana saw first-hand a young guy get shot in playa ancha at 8am and bleed to death on the sidewalk before the ambulance was there (which took a while). Now you wouldn't walk by accident in that neighborhood, but this exists and is not "hype."

Re: mugging/theft, yes you can spot some loners specialized in hit and run with no fight in them and just showing you're aware of them will make them move on, but groups of 2 or more guys who will either try to distract you, or even lock your arms from behind while robbing you blind also operate around here. This is not hype, it's first-hand experience, friends who got robbed, and the local press. Now to some extent you have some of that in most cities in most countries, but you do want to be careful.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby Wedding Photographer » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:36 am

yes, but this gun shooting happens in vina and in santiago and is always related between internal disputes with drugs and prostitution etc, not with tourists...tourists dont get shot in Valpo...yes i also know press who have beenmugged but like you say...you look like prey....your prey...bold eye contact, and even preconative action can prevent them from targeting you....anyone coming to valpo, sure, be smart and eyes open but its petty crime...its not front page news...99 out of 100 times in valpo...if you show them there in for a fight they wont risk the attack. Fear smells and the petty robbers love the odour
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby Magnyz » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:07 am

Hmm, wedding photographer, what you say seem to be a contradiction, On the one hand you say that the violence i Valpo is hype etc etc but what you describe is more akin to a "jungle" where you have to stare down people you meet to avoid getting into trouble. What would you're advice be to somebody who for one reason or another cannot transform themselves to be intimidating to potential robbers?
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:15 am

Guns get pulled on extranjeros as even a previous poster on this board recounted a personal story that happened right on Alameda near Metro Santa Lucia (far from a deserted area) in Santiago Centro.

The stare game though it has peripheral merit is foolhardy and may eventually get you into trouble or not work some day as many of these delinquents may be wired on drugs or borderline or outright psycopaths.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby carica » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:33 am

Wedding Photographer wrote:in valpo i have walked the streets alone with 2 VERY expensive cameras round my neck and I keep my watch on which is also worth a few bucks to somme greedy thief...even down at the old port..


Why tempt fate? In my humble opinion, you're asking for it. After 4 years in Viña/Valpo I think that most foreigners will be robbed one way or another, be it held up, pickpocketed, or assaulted. It's luck of the draw, but your chances of being robbed are much higher walking around with cameras round your neck rather than keeping them in a nondescript bag like from Ripley or Falabella. Just common sense.

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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby perezoso » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:51 am

The stare game though it has peripheral merit is foolhardy and may eventually get you into trouble


I agree with that.

I have a friend who, with his wife, was mugged at gunpoint in daylight after
Drift without paying attention for just a few blocks in the wrong direction...


He is 6ft 6'', 120 kg, and could have backhanded both the 15 year old kids over an adjacent wall, if it wasnt for the possibility of his wife being injured. Staring them down wouldnt have prevented that mugging.

My wife worked in the Valpo prison as a social worker, with kids under 18.

Their perception of the gringos was that they were very easy targets, always going out with cameras and money, and unlikely to report any crime because of the hassle to report the crime. Easy targets.

It's an obvious assumption, just interesting to here it directly from the people committing the crimes.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby Magnyz » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:58 pm

From Valparaiso Times

The Dos And Don’ts To A Safe Trip In Chile’s Favorite Port City


It’s no secret. Most travel agents and Lonely Planet books will warn you to keep your guard up in any South American country. In fact, just about any “gringo” boarding a flight to South America is likely to know that they’re in for a risk. And indeed, between the herds of street dogs, labyrinthine alleyways, and tourist-preying muggers, a stroll through charming, colorful but poverty-stricken Valparaíso can bear its hazards.


What many “Valpo”-goers may not be aware of are the measures they can take to prevent such hazards before their vacation gets ruined by a pickpocket or worse.

There are plenty of tactics for staying safe in a foreign city, but with its concentrated population, 90-degree landscape, high poverty rate and criss-cross street grids, crime has assumed a much more grizzly guise in Valparaíso – Chile’s premier port city. Indeed, staying safe in “Valpo” can be an art in itself – to which end, the Valparaíso Times sought the advice of two men who have spent their lives pursuing just that: kickboxing instructor Raúl De Soto and Police Chief Jorge Castro.

A native of France, Raúl De Soto has lived in Chile’s Region V for 34 years and practiced martial arts for the exact same period. As a lifelong kickboxing competitor, De Soto has held professional championship titles in Spain, Chile and France, plus a one-time stint as Professional South American Champion. Now in his late forties, he devotes his time to his self-defense school in Viña del Mar. A veritable brick of a man, De Soto looks like he could disembowel Rocky on a good day – yet he is the first to admit that violence is not the answer to street survival.

Q: Do you teach your students how to attack a perpetrator?

A: I teach self-defense so that my students have the reflexes to react if they need to, but in Valparaíso, it’s never a good idea to put up a fight against a mugger if you can avoid it. The criminals around here almost always carry weapons, and you never know who’s going to pull a pistol on you. I can punch pretty fast, but sadly, a bullet can punch much faster.


Q: What should our readers watch out for?

A: Firstly, they should watch out for themselves. Many of the students I teach signed up for classes after being mugged, and when I ask them what happened, almost all of them tell me they were wearing big bags, rings, iPods in their ears, or cameras around their necks. The best thing you can do to avoid a mugging is try to not look like a tourist.

At the other end of the city, in southern Valparaíso’s Playa Ancha – a low-income suburb, Police Chief Jorge Castro watches over the locals who live on Valpo’s jagged hills. In his many years with the “carabineros” (Chile’s uniformed police), he has witnessed every manner of street crime.

Q: What should our readers watch out for?

A: The idea that muggings only occur at night is, unfortunately, a misconception. Many tourists who have their things stolen are daytime robbery victims. The key is to watch your surroundings instead of the clock. Avoid the poorer areas unless you’re with a large group, and keep your eyes open for narrow side streets or clusters of trees, where muggers often hide.

Chief Castro also advised to note the dress choice of any nearby loiterers.

Nobody is going to wear dress shoes if they’re planning to mug you. Anyone wearing running shoes, tracksuits and hoods are much more likely to attack you – it allows them to move faster, hide potential weapons and blend into a crowd after their escape.

However, while the streets of Valparaíso – and indeed all of Chile – can yield their dangers, both men are in agreement: the threat of a stolen purse shouldn’t detract from an afternoon “ascensor” (cable car) ride or an afterhours street cart snack.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:18 pm

Good obs regarding the dress of persons that may be up to no good, better known as the "flaite" look.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby admin » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:48 pm

yea, I don't know what it is about gringos on vacation. They get dumb. They do things that they would likely never ever do in their home city.

Cameras are the big one that sets you apart. If you are walking around any city in the World with a frigen 6 inch howitzer of a camera around your neck and your eye stuck to the view finder the entire day, you are a target. Especially if the Camera is equal to half of the populations yearly pay. Cameras have improved dramatically in the last few years. Most people do not need a 10+ mega pixel shot with a 16 mb file to email the kids back home. 600 x 400 for 99% of the shots is more data than you need, and a human eye will never distinguish the quality difference on a computer monitor (where most photos get seen these days). The problem with any camera that will not fit in your pocket is that chances are you are also have to take a camera case to mark you more as a target and slow you down. Buy a small, discreet camera, and it will more than likely take a photo way better than most people will ever need. Learn to shoot quick and from the hip. It is also nice when in places that you can not normally take a photo such as a museum or church.

Also forget the day pack and the frigen lonely planet / go chile / whatever travel guide at your hotel room. I can always spot tourist a mile away with the stupid travel guides in English. Bring a light jacket with some big pockets in it. Keep your hands and feet free to move. In high school and college I use to travel around Mexico for weeks with nothing but what was in my pockets, and buying anything else as I needed it. Most people can get by for a few hours with what fits in your pockets.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby RWS » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:31 pm

I'm no expert, but I've lived on three or four continents and travelled on five. I'm middle-aged -- plenty of years of exposure. I've never been attacked (well, I've been subjected to theft perpetrated by merchants and cabbies, but that's not quite the same!). Here's what may have helped me.

I dress decently, not like the child I'm not nor like a tourist: I wear a suit, or an odd jacket (the latter, sometimes without a necktie), giving me good inside pockets for protection of wallet or cellular telephone; I wear leather shoes, not plastic or cloth ones. I walk as I grew up walking in England and Europe, motions that are different from the usual American but not so odd in Latin America. I try to be constantly aware of physical and human surroundings. I try to learn at least a little of the language of the land before I land, if I don't know it already. And I pray!

In short, I don't act the part of the stereotypical American or, even, other foreign tourist. But I don't neglect to be confident and relaxed enough to enjoy where I am and what I'm doing.

As EE.UU. would write, YMMV and DYODD; but, so far, all this has worked for me.
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Re: TRUE GRIT!! Please! Valparaiso v. Vina deMar

Postby kwdornan » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:11 pm

I've lived a few places in Latin America, and Valpo strikes me as being very safe for a bigger city. Buenos Aires is 100x as dangerous for muggings and pickpockets or armed robbery. I have also walked home drunk quite a few times and have never had a problem. If anything I get approached by other friendly ppl (like university students) who talk to me while they are also walking home. On the other hand, I live in Cerro Alegre and pretty much stick to there and El Plan, so I couldn't say about other places. If you don't know where you are / are going you could be asking for trouble, but that's true of any city in the world, rich or poor.
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