Chile Forum

Sounds like a good deal then.

From my prior post
"I specifically chose an old Ursus Trotter design that uses a battery for ignition."
Re: the putting the califont outside, are you sure? So long as the unit has enough make up air and a tight flue, it should be OK.

I need to ask the same question as the original poster, where can I find the codes for califonts? I am living in an apartment and want to change out the electric water tank for a califont. You can not believe how expensive one of those things are to run, 40,000 a month in electric is atrocious. Talking to the doorman and the gasfiters gets me all sorts of conflicting and strange info like "the only califont you can legally use in the building is ursus trotter". Now that is a nice brand but a legal requirement? I know that I have to put it in the apartment as there is no balcony and this is regularly done in this apartment complex. We also have a yearly inspection so it does actually have to be to code and not the typical whatever works methodology that can happen. I understand the safety concerns of having a califont killing people in their sleep and I know that I can make it safe with an air intake and an exhaust, but the question is "what else do I have to worry about so I don't have to rip it out after I have finished it?" any help in finding some sort of code would be helpful, I have no idea where to start searching and what keywords to use in spanish to find it.

Gas installation regulations have tightened up quite a lot in the last few years.
You can check with the Superintendencia de Electricidad y Combustibles (SEC) for authorized installers.
The regulations are especially strict on exhaust gas venting, and if any sort of caseta is needed to house a calefont, it has to be made of non-combustible material. I built a wall-mounted one with a frame made from of box section steel covered with superboard cement board and it passed the inspection.

Apart from the carbon monoxide risk, the other reason for having it outside is that a lot of the older ones are just plain dangerous; I have seen ones that operate the gas valve even with the pilot unlit, thanks to the repair eforts of irresponsible "maestros".

I believe though that the newer calefonts available use a balanced flue design. These types are suitable for through-wall installations and can be used internally as the unit draws in external air and vents it back out the same way, in fact they are sealed units so the house's interior air is untouched.

We just bought a 14-liter califont from Junkers (Ach Ja Deutsche Qualität!) that ignites thanks to the water pressure (they call that "hydropower"), you don't even need batteries to run it. It was actually cheaper than the battery-powered version of the same heater. The guy at Sodimac explained that they had bought 1,000 units, thus bringing down the price, which I have a good feeling is something he made up on the fly

Anyway, much better than our older pilot-based heater. Faster, warmer water, according to our early tests. We did the shower+washing dishes+washing hands test and water stayed warm, though water pressure dropped at the 3rd or 4th faucet we opened.

Interestingly, one of my contractors based in Montana recently asked me about that type of water heater design - apparently they're starting to get some traction in the US.

I just got back from visiting my friend in Maui. He has a solar water heater he cobbled together from a couple of discarded solar water panels that works better than any electric or gas heater I have ever met. He feeds the output into a regular electric water heater tank for storage. The only flaw in the system is that the water is so hot that there is a danger of scalding if you are not carful about turning the shower on.

Given the amount of sunshine in the northern part of Chile Solar is the only way I would go as it is practically free and no pilot lights to fret over.

otravers wrote:We just bought a 14-liter califont from Junkers (Ach Ja Deutsche Qualität!) that ignites thanks to the water pressure (they call that "hydropower"), you don't even need batteries to run it. It was actually cheaper than the battery-powered version of the same heater. The guy at Sodimac explained that they had bought 1,000 units, thus bringing down the price, which I have a good feeling is something he made up on the fly

Anyway, much better than our older pilot-based heater. Faster, warmer water, according to our early tests. We did the shower+washing dishes+washing hands test and water stayed warm, though water pressure dropped at the 3rd or 4th faucet we opened.

Interestingly, one of my contractors based in Montana recently asked me about that type of water heater design - apparently they're starting to get some traction in the US.

Yes, Bosch have been selling them here for years, the hard water plays havoc with the little "micro turbine" hence the importance of having a water treatment system in line upstream of the califont. I bought the battery type for this very reason, we'll see if I end up regretting it but a D cell twice a year won't break me.

Thanks for the help Fraggle092 the website is good for building codes for electric and gas.

While I was doing some further research I found that there are electric versions for sale in the states and they are supposed to be about 30% more efficient than the tank hot water heater that I have now. It might be easier to use, still more expensive to operate than gas but the installation for the venting systems is going cause some compromises in the apartment that I don't really like ( putting filler blocks in windows for vent tubes and loosing windows, and possibly having the califont in the living room) Does anyone have any experience with electric califonts in Chile? My gf said she could import it without a problems from the states but I don't know if it will work for the electrical here. I found a Stiebel Eltron Tempra 12 model on plumbers supply that lists voltage at 208-240, wattage 9-12 and amp 44-50. I can't link to it but it should be easy to find. I think it will work but I don't know. Can someone confirm one way or another?

To be honest, I haven't ever installed one of the instant HW heaters in the US, as 50Amps takes up 25% of the typical house panel which brings me to the next bit.
In Chile, I paid Litoral (the electric co), extra to have a "heavy duty" (12 Ga) line run in from the pole to my new panel. As I recall the standard feed was something like 16Amps at 220V, I got a 25Amp service, whoo hoo .
If you think the lights dim a bit when you plug in the electric kettle, bring a candle for when you have a shower with that bad boy!

Re electric flash shower heaters,sorry to be a bit negative but that US unit you mention would be rated at 9-12 Kilowatt, and I would think it's meant to be run on US 3-phase current. Single phase consumption would be 50Amps, which is unheard of for a domestic installation here.
I've seen smaller wattage ones, around 4KW, but they don't work well when the inlet water temperature is low in the wintertime.
Also as they are virtually unknown here, there are no normas covering their installation or use.

Bugger! I had hoped that I had found a way to not hack up the apartment with vents and pipes. I have no desire to start showering with a candle though. the current situation can't stand though as the gf turns off the water heater to save energy forcing a early alarm in the morning a hour before the planned shower to start up the tank. not fun! not fun!

MikieO wrote:Yes, Bosch have been selling them here for years, the hard water plays havoc with the little "micro turbine" hence the importance of having a water treatment system in line upstream of the califont.

Thanks for the tip, a water filter is now on our shopping list.

Nate, can't you just put the water heater on a timer and sleep in a little bit?

I will have to check to see if there is a timer available that can take the current. It would be nice but I don't think the timers for lamps will not be sturdy enough to take the load for the water heater. Honestly the tank is 80 liters and both of us don't use that much showering in the morning so an hour of heating before I got up to shower would do for the entire day. After living with gas califonts for several years hot water tanks seem somewhat idiotic.

something to consider when placing it is direct wind direction..if the pilot keeps blowing out or, the flames are fighting to heat the the membranes your gas bill will be high...best to mount it on the wall nearest your most commonly used hot water tap in the house...usually the kitchen to shorten the distance the hot water will have to travel and depending on the amount of bathrooms and people showering and using hot water could be an idea to install 2