Chile Forum

yea, we know more than a few properties down the Patagonia that you will need an airplane to see even part of in a couple days. I know of one that is 10000 hectares, and going for about 63,000 pesos a hectare last I checked. Again, you will need an airplane to get there, and another one to see it in a day.

That is the problem. Many people might be able to scrape together sufficient money to for example buy even 1,000 hectares, but can they manage a 1,000 hectare property on a day to day basis?

What about 10,000 hectares? Believe it or not a property that big, can not just be left alone to nature. It takes serious money and time to maintain.

Douglas Tompkins place for instance has multiple landing strips, and heavy moving equipment including road graders, cats, and more located throughout the property. I bet he has something around several hundred miles of road to maintain just inside Pumalin park (he owns about 100 times that in other organizations names), and several hundred bridges. Don't forget you got to control forest fires, stop the locals from poaching the timber, overgrazing the property, and so on. Don't forget the fences. You are obligated in many places to maintain the fences so the neighbors cattle does not wonder on to your property. Imagine maintaining a 1000+ KM fence line. It would bankrupt most mortals alone.

Even in the 7th, 8th and 9th regions, I saw a number of 80,000 to 100,000 pesos a hectare properties, that are relatively
large. So what prevents one, who have that money, from buying it, and dividing it into smaller ones, say, 50, 100, 150 hectares, and re-selling them to equal-minded people? That would solve the management problem, and also no one would then need to pay such a high price. Is it extremely difficult procedure, I mean, dividing a 10,000 Ha. property into 50 or 100 smaller ones?

Remember me when you come into your kingdom, RC. (No blasphemy intended.)

Instead of one person buying a large parcel and looking for buyers of smaller parcels, why don't like minded people get together first, pool their money, locate and purchase the large parcel jointly?

Zenth wrote:...why don't like minded people get together first, pool their money, locate and purchase the large parcel jointly?

But what happened to don "University of Higher Knowledge", and their so-called "bridge project"? I am not sure, and those living near Pucon should know better, probably. Anyone? Whether or not their idea of collecting USD 3,500.oo for a lifelong membership in a rural community in Chile, as it was described in their paper, actually worked? I am not sure, either. The process of "pooling their money" first is questionable, so I think. The selling of an existing 100 hectares lots of a native forest, at a very good price, say, less than USD 20,000.oo per lot, seems to be more attractive. The actual going rate for such lots should be close to 500,000 to 1,000,000 pesos per hectare. Should the division of a large property, like in the ad above, be made, that price goes down to 80,000 to 100,000 pesos only. If there are no eco-friendly "Higher Knowledge Seekers" with 20,000 USD in their pockets in this world -- I'd be surprised. If they are -- why not?..

RWS wrote:Remember me when you come into your kingdom, RC. (No blasphemy intended.)

I don't think that the idea is absolutely crazy..

I personally observed dividing relatively large properties in the upper Cochiguaz valley (while I was there) into rather "standard" 5,000 sq.m parcelas, calling them "eco-parcelas" { } and then selling them at the going market rate (at 3,5 to 5 million pesos each) directly, or through auctions in Santiago, to general public. But it's just a pure commercial enterprise.

And I have never seen a process of dividing really large properties (around 5,000 to 10,000 Ha.) into large enough lots (say, 50 to 100 Ha.). And selling them to.. (RWS?.. who else?.. ).

And.. anyone has 2 millions USD?..

You can actually buy lots at private auction in 5,000 meters to 1 hectare for starting bids of around 1 million pesos. They are normally really low quality (i.e. Need $10,000+ US in infrastructure). They run the advertising in the Sunday newspapers. Mostly they are impulse sales to Chileans in the central region that will not use them. They think they are investments, and buy site unseen. They are rarely investment or living grade property (no roads, no view, no electricity, bad location).

Subdividing lots out of larger properties are possible, just be aware that there is a good deal of legal and survey leg work that goes with it. If you where to do it as a group, make sure you are really are like minded.

Personally, I like to get investors for my personal property portfolio that will never visit. For example, if I find a nice property that is out of my price range, we might call one of my wife's cousin, close family friends, or perhaps my brother and offer to go in on it. They put up half the cash or whatever, and they get a chunk of property. Just we get to use their half more or less however we like because they never come to visit. Even if they do, it would be like once every 3-5 years. Difference they know we will actually make them money on the sale, take care of the property, increase the value, handle all the legal work, not to mention being in the business we are in we only buy for ourselves when we come across super one shot serious deals on spectacular properties. The kinds we don't advertise on our web sites or tell anyone about until the deal is closed (sorry guys). So it is not like we are taking advantage of them. We keep a short list of family and close friend investors that have told us they are willing to buy whatever we think is a good deal.

Again, the most important criteria for entering my personal investment club is that they be no hassle partners that will never come to visit, never complain, or even care what we do with the property. I don't want to be neighbors with them, and just want them to be silent partners. That is part of the deal of getting in on the deal.

admin wrote:You are obligated in many places to maintain the fences so the neighbors cattle does not wonder on to your property. Imagine maintaining a 1000+ KM fence line. It would bankrupt most mortals alone.

Obviously, no 1000+ KM fence line is needed. For 1000+ km of mora bushes would be planted instead. As my personal experience and knowledge are telling me, breaking through thick mora bushes is far more painful, than through a barb-wire fence. Additionally, you will be able to make tons of mora marmalade each summer, so you'll have to export it to China. That would decrease their cash reserves considerably, so the Chinese would have to sell most of their U.S. Treasuries. That would cause more panic in the U.S., and as a result, the flow of those willing to move to Chile, and seek the true nature of the reality on a 100-hectare piece of native forest, would be just increasing.

admin wrote:Again, the most important criteria for entering my personal investment club is that they be no hassle partners that will never come to visit, never complain, or even care what we do with the property. I don't want to be neighbors with them, and just want them to be silent partners. That is part of the deal of getting in on the deal.

The most important criteria for entering this.. "park".. { } would be, that they should care very well what to do with the property. All neighbors would want to be neighbors with the other neighbors, and that is the right thing..

boy, you really don't spend much time with humans.

I have kicked around the plans of using black berry bushes for security fences. Cheap, and impenetrably once they get going. That is the problem however on a large property. Once they get going it can take just about as much labor to keep them in check as it would to build a fence. On a small property I could see that working however.

In our hometown in Australia you legally have to pay for plastic bags, and they always ask if you want one rather than give it to you automatically because most people carry reusable ones. So I've been horrified with the amount of bags we're using in Chile!

I persevere with saying "no, I don't need a bag, see I have one already...", but I think I'm still given them about 80 percent of the time. I understand why in supermarkets; they want the tip, but at markets and things surely it would be less work for them just to hand me the bunch of bananas or whatever? It's just so ingrained I guess.

BTW I have a background in science/health/environmental communication and would love to spend a few weeks or more working with a good environmental or health NGO in Chile Spring/Summer 10/11. I can redesign websites, translate content to English, take photos and videos etc. I'm flexible on location. If you recommend somewhere, PM me. I have a working visa, or for the right cause I'd work just for accomodation for my partner and I instead.

Also, speaking of a big lot being divided into smaller lots but maintaining environmental standards there's such a project about an hour from my home city in Australia, called Aldinga Arts Eco Village (could it be more hippy?). One of my friends and her husband bought a block there and love it. But the project took 15 years of planning to get to the village stage. They have a website with some background info if you want to google it.