Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:30 am

Well, got to love the latest entrapment factor here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-200 ... 15378.html

You are dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.

The IRS has an amnesty of sorts going on right now for all those that did not declare there accounts, and they keep extending the deadline. It seems to be Sept 23 for most, but there is a messy bunch of modification that going on that is not clear when it is. Just the forms you file would leave you open to signing your own confession to crimes that have much more serious consequences than simply not declaring your offshore accounts.

So, you can risk them finding your foreign bank account you forgot to declare, and paying the big penalties for that; or, you can sign a confession that you where evading taxes (or something that could be easily slanted that way) and forgot to declare that you where evading taxes.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:47 am

Interesting articles on the way foriegn banks are starting to close american's accounts, rather than take on the extra cost of having them as customers:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/snyder/snyder19.1.html

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/14/banks- ... print.html

There is currently a new set of laws making its way through the Chilean congress under pressure from the U.S. and as requirement for Chile to enter the OECD, that allows for the sharing of foreigners account information with foreign governments. Currently checking accounts are protected under privacy laws in Chile. We are working on pulling the law and talking to our contacts in congress to get sense of where it is at, and where it is going.

Our fear is that the already schizophrenic way the banks in Chile deal with foreigners opening accounts, could become much more complicated. We already have a lazy factor to deal with in the bank executives here, where they simply will not deal with anything complicated because it means too much paperwork.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:10 am

Here is the most comprehensive explanation of the latest changes I have found, in the shortest format.

http://www.internationallawoffice.com/N ... ec38384117

So, it seems the best way to go is just buy some land sufficiently large to support yourself, and produce all of your own needs. Using money is no longer cost effective simply because the paperwork is too thick. Well at least until they make you report each potato and tomato you grow. :shock:
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby RWS » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:35 am

admin wrote:Well, got to love the latest entrapment factor here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-200 ... 15378.html . . . .

Regrettably, Charles, it's pay-to-read.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:55 am

I thought that was a bit strange for WJS article. The article was unlocked when I opened it the first time. Basically it is an interview with bunch of attorneys specializing in tax law, saying what the summary says.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby andrechile » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:27 pm

to read this wsj article click here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... TQMffz4uMA

if you want to read any wsj site free of charge the referrer has to be google ;)
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby RWS » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:12 pm

Thanks, very, for the effort, but it still didn't work for the full article (thought I was able to read one or two sentences more than before).
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:30 pm

woops, that ctrl+c on my keyboard must be sticking: :lol:

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--A form the Internal Revenue Service devised to make it simpler to confess to having a secret offshore account could help dig a deeper legal hole for some.

Tax lawyers say one question on the form is particularly alarming. It asks people to explain why they created an account.

"This could equate to a signed confession in many cases," said Bryan Skarlatos, a partner at New York law firm Kostelanetz & Fink. He said he fears "it could be used against the taxpayer if anything goes wrong" in the so-called voluntary disclosure process, which is designed to shield people from the harshest penalties if they come forward on their own.

The IRS introduced the form last week as the number of people turning themselves in swelled amid a crackdown on offshore tax evaders. The government is pressing Swiss bank UBS AG (UBS) for information on some 52,000 accounts belonging to U.S. clients.

Doctors, lawyers, financial-services executives and many others have been caught up in the UBS matter as owners of Swiss accounts. Many are older people who inherited accounts from relatives, and many have ties to World War II. Mistrust of the government after the war drove some to stash money in countries, like Switzerland, with laws that protect bank secrecy. Others, however, set up accounts simply to evade taxes.

The form, which users can submit to the IRS criminal investigation unit, asks for information about the size and source of a bank account and the people affiliated with it.

One question asks for an explanation of the account's purpose. "For example," it prompts, "Holocaust Compensation or Restitution; inherited account; account established prior to World War II, etc.; if tax non-compliance -- please explain."

Choosing the last option could amount to an admission that one set up the account to evade taxes, signed under penalty of perjury.

Since voluntary disclosure implies some level of wrongdoing in the first place, lawyers say the question is out of bounds.

"There simply is no legal reason to require an express admission under oath," Skarlatos said.

How one handles the question depends on the circumstances. In general, however, anyone making a voluntary disclosure needs to be complete, honest and truthful. If the IRS thinks he is holding back, it could "use the signed confession to obtain an immediate guilty plea," Skarlatos added.

IRS spokesman Bruce I. Friedland said the form, which is in a letter format, isn't intended to "trap taxpayers into self-incrimination." He also said it is optional.

People who want to turn themselves in can do so without the letter by contacting their local Criminal Investigation division office. Eventually, however, they will be required to provide numerous details of their non-compliance as part of disclosure.

The optional letter, Friedland said, was intended to make it clear to taxpayers and their representatives "what the IRS would need to know to determine their eligibility and to reduce the need for additional information requests or additional interviews."

The form ideally could help taxpayers in a rush to make voluntary disclosures before a possible UBS settlement potentially exposes more account holders.

Despite the potential sand-trap question, Skarlatos and other tax attorneys say the new form is a step in the right direction because it helps to standardize a program that has been quite diffuse until now.

Scott D. Michel, an attorney at Caplin & Drysdale in Washington, D.C., said it will simplify the first phase of disclosure and generally eliminate the need for those coming forward to be interviewed by the IRS. This should encourage more people to make voluntary disclosures, he added.

The intense pace of voluntary disclosures is continuing - in fact, many people are rushing to get their names in this week before an expected settlement between UBS and the government that could change the landscape.

Earlier this year, the IRS offered a deal involving penalty limits that will expire Sept. 23.

With ever more aggressive enforcement in this area, "having an undeclared account becomes an albatross around one's neck," Michel said. While the deal the IRS has on the table isn't perfect, it may be the best opportunity in years to come clean, he added.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby RWS » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:36 pm

Thanks, Charles. Interesting indeed.
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby Kel » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:55 pm

I have done business in Chile for 4 years with no bank account. So far, I've found ways to work around this. But I've considered my lack of an account a bit of a curse. However, reading this thread, I'm wondering if it isn't really a blessing. With no account, there is no paperwork to file! :mrgreen:

Can somebody summarize what I would be facing when I get my permanent residency and open an account? :roll:
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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:25 pm

Information sharing is on the verge of coming to Chile (OECD membership). Or can Chile resist and keep bank secrecy? Or does it matter when all you have to do is pay off and/or romance-wine-dine the right low level clerks at the banks?

A couple of years ago, the first 100% online Swiss bank closed my account and wired the balance to my specified US bank account because they did not want to deal deal with US citizens in the post Patriot Act, new banking rule expansion era. So I understand the pressure the Chilean banks are under and how easy it would be to solve the regulatory hassle issue by just prohibiting banking by USA or similar surveilled citizens.

Like the previous poster, I've done fine without a Chile-based financial account for over 8 years.

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Re: Obama to go after expat accounts

Postby admin » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:09 pm

Here is one of the most bone chilling articles so far as to make me think twice about doing buisness with American clients ( not there yet), but I am very certain many companies around the World that are dealing with American's funds have got to be saying it just not worth it.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/19/ubs-sw ... asion.html

The U.S. has basically made it if not explicitly illegal at least practically impossible to be an American expat living abroad. I wonder how long it takes for this to show in the GDP of the U.S.? Yea, they might get a bit more tax from these accounts in the short term, but how much international economic activity have they killed that would have generated even more tax revenue?
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