Chile Forum

I lived in Patagonia Argentina for more than 3 years (year round) in San Martin de los Andes and now live in Temuco so I will give you my opinion if you want to hear it. I will reference your numbers with my comments and leave out anything that I have no comment on.

1. Weather... if you are comparing Patagonia Arg to Chile yes Arg is more dry. On one hand rain keeps you indoors on the other hand it means the grass is actually greener in Chile. I traveled back and forth between Pucon and Chile every 3 months to renew my "tourist" visa. The difference is noticable. If you suffer from dry skin you will feel it in Arg and not in Chile.

2. Prices... tough one because day to day living in Chile is a lot higher but with the subsidies on gas and utilities in Argentina the low prices are an illusion and when the subsidies are gone the people will riot in the streets. Chilenos run around unplugging everything and Argentines leave everything running all the time. We noticed about 20 percent inflation per year in Arg and in Chile it's steady. Prices of land and houses in this region are much lower than anywhere in Patagonia Arg.

3. Gringo friendliness... you never know what is said behind your back but more people speak great English in Arg than Chile. Chilenos are known to be gringo friendly but sometimes they just see dollar signs. Argentines are more relaxed about things I would say. For example my kids classmates in Arg had about a 50 percent divorce rate and here it's about 5 percent. Much more conservative with that.

5. Residency... You need to research the famous (sort of new) Zona Frontera law regarding ownership of anything in Patagonia Arg from Mendoza all the way to the end of Arg. Realtors will tell you they can get around it but it's just not true. You must be a naturalized Arg citizen to actually hold title to any property and this is not an easy task. You can certainly give your money and live in a house or have land but when it's time to sell or you die and can't pass the property to your kids it's a bit messy. I strongly suggest researching or getting other opinions from someone with nothing to gain financially from you. In Buenos Aires it's not an issue. In Chile it's simple to get residency and even tourists can hold title to just about anything. Word of caution about owning cars. No foreigner can leave Argentina in a car that they own. This is a very old law that should be changed. Chile does not have this law.

Look beyond the typical tourist places like Pucon. The tourism board has their own agenda but living in a tiny town has it's own problems so be careful with that. Another important factor is basic infrastructure and Chile has my vote. I hope that I never have to fly into or out of Buenos Aires again. Travel to Patagonia Arg is expensive and impossible. Chile has great roads and airports. Travel within Chile is a dream compared to Argentina. Sometimes I go out of my way to drive on a gravel road just to remember Argentina

And the winner is......Mexico! Well, at least for me, for now. Until Social Security starts my company pension doesn't appear to be enough to live on in either Argentina or Chile. Could get by ok but won't have enough to travel home regular to see family. There's the other thing I love doing, RVing, something I can do reasonably cheaply in Mexico. In spite of all you hear about violence in Mexico truth is stay away from the border, don't be out late in seedy bars, should be reasonably safe. Mexico's central plateau has one of the world's great climates. There is one thing about Argentina that bugs me. Eating so late at night, then staying up into the early morning at parties. It appears to have a social life I'd have to accept that, not something that appeals to me. Found a blog about a family that RVed through Argentina. They said if you value quiet at night don't stay at an Argentine campground. Many times at midnight or later groups of partying Argentines would show up to fire up the grill and were very loud. On the one hand you have to admire how sociable they are but maybe it's an indicator of the economic problems Argentina has. I do find the Argentine northwest to be a very appealing area. If you like the American southwest you'll love the Argentine northwest.

Not sure if I have mentioned this before but there's a unique city in southern Bolivia, Tarija, that appears to have a nice quality of life for roughly $500 USD a month. It's Bolivia's wine growing region, and is considered culturally to be more like Argentina than the rest of Bolivia, which it's isolated from. It's safe too but there's a catch. The Tarija department is also rich in natural gas. It was one of the 3 departments that threatened secession last year when Bolivia's president, Evo Morales, tried to nationalize the gas fields in order to redistribute wealth to other areas of Bolivia. Things calmed down but it could get serious in a hurry. I don't think Bolivia will get expensive any time soon so it's always a possibility for cheap retirement.

I hope no one takes offense here. None of this is to disparage Chile. It appears to be everything it's advertised to be. But it's beyond my means financially. But anyone looking for cheaper alternatives there are options. Regards.

Good luck. Glad you "made it" to Argentina and Chile and maybe Bolivia for the proper personal review. Wish I had your faith in USA corp and gov pensions. Suerte dude.

Hi all.

I think most things are already said. I'll try to contribute with my 2 cents as a Chilean. During my childhood I lived in Pto Varas, by the Llanquihue lake. I remember rain during the whole winter, and also during the summer. You get sunny days during the summer (sometimes temperature reaching over 30°C) but don't count on a full summer without rain.
If you go a few hundred kilometers north, near Pucon, weather gets better during summer.

Argentinian have this boom-crash economy, like Spencer said. Every couple of years they manage to have a decent economy, much better than Chilean. High grow rates, etc. But just when you think they've never been better, they crash. I don't know if it's the corruption or what, but it happens. You can tell how the economy goes by watching tourism during summer. When Argentinians are doing good, vacation places in Chile are flooded by argentinians during summer. When they crash, we Chileans go to Argentina to have great vacations for very little money.

Just one last thing that hasn't been noted in this discussion. There is a Chilean law (I think it's even on the Constitution) that forbids any foreigner to buy land closer than 50 kms to the border. I'm sure this can be bypassed and I don't think the authorities will ever notice this, but just keep it in mind.

Reviving thread.

Thought this recent post on FlyerTalk is revealing, especially the part on subsidies going away and exacerbating price increases there.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17806118-post99.html

SoFlyOn wrote: I was recently calculating our department expensas (condominium homeowner's fees) for 2011, and the cost has risen 2.01 times the cost in 2008. About 50% of that fee goes to employee salaries/benefits.

Inflation is sure to increase this year with the decrease/elimination of subsidies. Already the Subte fares have over doubled last week, and the government is going to "readjust" the subsidies given to bus companies. Given that the average Capital Federal bus fare is 1.25 pesos, that's probably going to see at least the same kind of increase as the Subte. Unlike many other urban transport districts, there are no monthly/weekly etc. passes in BsAs. The city's bus routes are also all run privately by many different companies, so if you need to take two buses to reach your destination you will have to pay two fares.

But perhaps the biggest boost to inflation this year will be the decrease/elimination of subsidies for gas and electricity in BsAs. The bills always come with the subsidy clearly indicated, and in our case the electric bill would be 3.54 times higher and the gas bill 1.45 (based on the most current billing cycle). In our case this represents minimal usage (with only a few days of running the AC at night), and most lighting via fluorescent light fixtures.

Residents in the CF will also face a variable hike next month in the property tax used to pay for street cleaning and illumination and garbage removal (ABL). The last increase was in 2008 where buildings in "richer" barrios (Puerto Madero/Recoleta/Palermo/Belgrano etc.) saw a massive hike - ours was 2.87 times. However this next hike will effect properties city-wide, so that there is a minimum charge that every homeowner will have to pay.