Chile Forum

MikieO wrote:OTV I'll confess that the high price tag got to me too and I'll bet my house is a lot smaller than yours! I had originally solicited bids from the two biggest Chilean firms. While their products are nice, I got sticker shock during my last visit and went with a local aluminium window vendor, albeit with thermopanel units, low E coating on the West facing elevations. The price was 40% of the vinyl units.

Same experience here in Valdivia with sticker shock for the PVC windows, and we went with the double-glazed aluminium units from a local assembler (Valdilum, "linea Xelentia"), but as far as I know the aluminium components are imported and cut to size. The work (including instalation, which a previous contractor had screwed up to the point where we told them to take their windows back...) was done to our satisfaction, the only things missing are the covers for the drainage holes which I should get tomorrow. We insisted on the owner supervising the installation, so none of the handymen took shortcuts.

Condensation is a problem on the aluminium frames, but other than that everything's fine.

I'll see if I can find the quote / invoice, but if memory serves correctly, the 16 windows (10 large ones at approx. 1.25 x 1.00m, plus bathroom and some triangular pieces for the attic) cost approx. CLP1.5M, plus the cost for the wooden frames / adaptors ("pre-marcos"), and the PVC units were on the far side of CLP2.5M

Frank, the bid for the vinyl units was in excess of 4.3m, the aluminium bid is 2m.
Knowing how cheap vinyl windows are to make, somebody is getting very wealthy in Vitacura.

We've been quoted about 150.000 CLP for a 1x1.5m 4-12-4 PVC window. Our windows are quite large and we have lots of them so I'll get more quotes later, I didn't have time for those first 4 we're getting changed that can't wait.

I am not sure how to work out this formula, but there is got to be one I am sure.

Those 150,000 peso window likly equal about a 10,000 pesos per month each reduction in your heating / cooling bill over the standard single pain glass. So they are expensive in Chile, but worth it. Especially anywhere wood is forbidden, and it gets a bit chilly in the winter months. Likely well paid for in the first year or two.

Ummm, but how does one calculate the aluminium to PVC savings over the same period? I feel sure either Rune or Ja Ro can help in their own, unique way.

Yeah I'm sure they're easy to amortize. There's also noise insulation to consider. Anyway in our case (we can use wood stoves in Viña and don't plan to use gas for heating) we're fine with amortizing them over a longer period of time, and we're also aiming to lift our house to a level where it can command a pretty nice long-term resale value, which is not going to happen if we cut corners on essentials.

MikieO wrote:Ummm, but how does one calculate the aluminium to PVC savings over the same period? I feel sure either Rune or Ja Ro can help in their own, unique way.

Wow... I never thought I would be placed in the same category as Rune. My answer won't have anything to do with what the flowers or rocks think the answer should be. I will save that for our friend Rune.

And I am sorry about the non-answer answer that follows.

So let me get started… basically everything component of your house has and R (RSI in metric) value; your insulation, sheathing, brick, glass, and even air spaces. So with some straight forward addition you would be able to find the total R value for and component of your house, and then some dividing and multiplying you can get the number of BTU’s saved between 2 components then use that to translate in to a dollar amount. Now… windows are a bit more complicated than that. When you do all your adding of R values (glass, air, glass) you will get an value for the centre of the glass… not for the entire unit (or even the edges of the glass which are generally less efficient then the centre), the good new is that your window manufacturer should have this information from lab test. But you have to specifically ask for the rating on the entire window. Most will just give you the centre of glass rating because it is always higher… always. Google could probably find you a general comparison but if you are looking for something more accurate get the numbers from the manufactures. Vinyl and Wood will also always have a better rating than Aluminum or Steel because metals transmit heat more than the other two, but Aluminum and Steels windows are extremely low maintenance and don’t rot or jamb due to humidity and are immune to bugs.

Also on a side note, if you live in a typical Chilean house upgrading your windows probably won’t reduce your radiant heat loss by that much. And if they do it is going to be marginal because about 90% of the radiant heat loss in those homes are through the roof structure. Now... insulating your attic and putting double-glazed windows is money well spent. And one more thing… if you are on the coast and ordering sealed windows with Aragon gas from Santiago (or anywhere else for that matter), make sure you ask how they counter act the pressure difference. Some companies use a Aragon filled chamber to build their windows then seal them up… other fill them on site and plug the breather tubes just before they are installed. The ones filled at the factory are generally better quality (no moisture, more gas…) but if you take them from Santiago (500 metres above sea level) down to sea level it will cause the windows to lens. Which can act like a magnifying glass and has been known to melt vinyl siding on neighbouring houses. And if they are filling them with gas at the factory and using breather tubes you are just going to loose all the gas by the time it gets to coast anyways so that is a waist of money.

Hi Jason, that's fascinating, never heard of the parabolic mirror angle but it sounds plausible I guess. No, the local vendor told me that the windows have air with silica gel inside the spacers.They look identical to those we use here in So Cal. No mention of Argon. If the folks on the beach start to self combust, I'll let you know.

It looks like you won't get argon in your windows here unless you specifically ask for it.

by otravers on Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:42 pm

Thanks. We're looking at Kömmerling windows right now for the first batch (3 windows and 1 pair of french doors). We'll go with that contractor we talked to in Concon because it comes recommended by friends as a company that delivered and set up their windows on time - and right now, time is of the essence. For the next batches of windows we'll have more time so we'll want to get more bids and might extend our search to Santiago as the big city offers more options than what's available on the coast.

Veka and Kömmerling look like they're relatively similar German windows. Do you recall how much you paid for what size and type of windows?


Hey otravers,
I'm looking at Veka windows for a new house in region VII. They only show 5 diferent sizes in model TT 01 and two of those are fixed. The other models only show 2 and 4 different sizes. Is that the case? Or, are more sizes available and they just are not listing them all? Do you have more costs for us? Are you happy with them?
Thanks, ron

Ron, we ended up staying with the same Kömmerling reseller/installer, so I don't know much about Veka.

otravers,

Thanks for that quick reply. I did not find a Kommerling/Chile with all there window sizes. Do you have a link.
Did they have many sizes? I'm looking for something like 2- 1500x1200h fixed, 4- 1200x1200, and some smaller sizes. I'm
flexible on how they open.

MikeO, did you find many different pvc window sizes when you were first looking at pvc? Maybe the pvc mfgs. keep
it simple with their selections?

Thanks for your comments.
ron