Chile Forum

I moved to Santiago about a month ago. My Chilean girlfriend is buying a house in a southern suburb of Santiago. It needs some work. We have planned out a series of improvements, and the work started earlier today. Over the next couple of months we will be re-building a brick wall, building a carport (cobertiso), moving some pipes and a drain for the washing machine and remodeling a bathroom. The result, hopefully, will be a much improved living situation for the four people living in this small house.

I have experience as a carpenter in the US, but I don't have many tools with me and I am not that familiar with the materials or the vocabulary that are used here in Chile. We have found a contractor who has the important characteristics I want...he's honest, he is punctual and he knows what he is doing. He's quite amazing actually. His estimates of the material costs were high by about 2%, he showed up when he said he would, he worked hard all day, his work is excellent and his prices are fair....I can't ask for more.

Phase 1: Tear down old concrete wall and rebuild with bricks....There was an old concrete wall that was not strong enough to hold up the carport we wanted to build. It was about 6 feet high, leaning badly and made of thin concrete panels that had too much sand in the mix. Easy tear down...except for the footer. Old concrete, very hard. We bashed out the old concrete with sledge hammers and a long iron rod (chuzo), and we dug a trench 30 cm deep with a pick (picota) and a shovel. The new wall will be about a foot higher than the old one.

We are using a red brick known as "princesa". They are larger than the bricks normally used in the US. They measure 7 x 14 x 28 cm, similar to terra cotta in color and texture.

It doesn't seem that any government interaction is needed, no permits, no inspectors. We notified the neighbors about what we wanted to do. They were happy...but unwilling to pay for half of the wall that we will share.

Now we have two piles of rubble in front of the house that we will have to pay to have removed. This was not included in the price quote for the work we agreed on.

Tomorrow we will be building forms for the new concrete footers, setting rebar and mixing concrete. We have an electric saw, but everything else is done by hand.

Here's a breakdown of the price for the tear down and reconstruction of 13.1 meters of a brick wall.

Materials (bricks, sand, cement, lumber, rebar) 435.000 ($618.00 US)
Delivery of materials 35.000 ($58.00 US)
Labor (mano de obra) 220.000 ($367.00 US)
Rubbish removal (estimate) 20.000 ($33.00 US)

Total 610.000 ($1076.00 US)

I am taking photos as we go. See photo gallery.

For the disposal, I'd try calling a flete with a decent-sized truck (eg. like the ones that hang around outside Sodimac & Easy) and just say you have some escombros you need moving. They should charge something like 20 lukas, I think, and they'll know where to get rid of it. For smaller quantities (eg. a few 100 lbs) you can also put them in the bin! I didn't think of it at first, but the bin men here in La Serena are happy to get rid of pretty much anything for a small tip (eg. 500 pesos).

James.

yeah...i am learning as i go. like so many other things in chile, LOW TECH RULES in construction projects. two teenagers came by with a horse and a carriage on tuesday and carried away the rubble in front of the house. it took them three trips and they charged us 17.000 pesos. not bad. we had a few bags of rubbish...broken bricks, chunks of concrete, bits of broken lumber, etc, that the regular trash guys took away for a small tip.

we are mixing the mortar by hand on the driveway, building scaffolding with buckets and planks and piles of brick, re-using everything...nails, lumber, etc....even the empty bags of concrete get re-used as trash bags.

the maestro who is in charge of the project is not a typical resident of this neighborhood....he likes to start early (by chilean standards)...8 AM. when i was framing houses in the US the foreman wanted us on the job site at first light....i used to ride my bike to the job site in the dark of the early morning. here, 8 AM is considered early. it's cool. i still get up early and sip my coffee and read the news until the crew shows up.

i am asking him lots of questions as we go and taking detailed notes. he knows his work. the problem is in communication. my intermediate-advanced spanish can't keep up with his fast talking and his generally unclear speech. but i am collecting lots of information about "building codes", such as they exist here in santiago.

whew! that was a lot of heavy work. busting concrete with sledge hammers, cutting through roots to dig a trench, shoveling gravel and sand and cement into wheelbarrows, building concrete forms, hauling bricks to the maestro....but the muralla is all finished now and it looks great.....and now we have a nice place for a parilla....which we made immediate use of while we drained several liters of austral.

towards the end of the project we ran out of cement and made a couple of trips to the local hardware store. lucky for us they were having a sale on cement! 4900 pesos for 42.5 kg. six bags.....poor little renault wagon barely made it. we ran out of sand and had to wheelbarrow three loads about ten blocks, 1300 pesos per wheelbarrow load. we had extra gravel which we used to replenish our neighbor's gravel driveway.

we have some rubbish still....the basureros will take most of it on tuesday for 1000 peso tip....the rest will wait because phase two is beginning tomorrow. when we have a big enough rubbish pile, which shouldn't take too long, the kids with the horse and carriage will haul it away. i'm starting to get the hang of how things work here.

the maestro presented his plan for the cobertiso (carport) to us last night. the budget sheet was full of very large numbers and i had to keep reminding myself...these are pesos, not dollars. we will be buying over 700.000 pesos worth of materials, and his labor charges for 10-12 days of work for himself and his son are 300.000. i'll be helping when i can. we should have the materials delivered today and then we start setting posts....more concrete busting and post hole digging in the summer heat of santiago....but....in a strange way....this kind of dirty, sweaty work is very cleansing and invigorating...and of course the finished product, when it comes out well, provides a lot of satisfaction.

The prices seem right.

I would suggest, although very tempting, that you do not sit down and have a beer after work with the maestros. Maybe when they are done and paid, but not before.

You are being observed at every moment so that a gauge can be set for what the order of business will be. If you want to keep the maestros for further work, then conduct yourself in a business like, workmen like manner in all things and they will follow your lead.

If you are messy, have a temper tantrum, ogle the girls, drink while working...they will see to it that they do the same thing...so be aware of that. This is important because plenty of good maestros are ruined for future work because of not watching those things.

It could sound harsh or gringo up-tightedness but I am telling you to mind this advice and you will not regret it. it doesn't matter who it is that is working...you must be attentive and diligent as to the "mood" of the job.

p out.

PS: Always pay when you say you will. Don't ever advance money except to start the job. Have them sign a reciept always. Be transparent in all things. Don't ever leave work to be done when you are going away and will be gone for more than a day. Count and qualify all the materials and do not leave anything near the street where it can be reached. Don't leave tools out. Always put things away. Keep all your reciepts and keep a log book even of who got what and when. If you have high expectations the maestros will meet them. Only pay the maestros doing the work; don't ever give the son money to give to the dad and always count out the money and have them count it. Don't let anyone think that you have money in the house but that you have to know ahead of time(2 or 3 days) when money will be needed so that you can go to the "bank". The bank is a good one. Make sure that they are aware that you actually go to the "bank" even though you may not. It could be that its not for the maestros to think this but all that will hear them talk about how the gringo has cash in the house and you will get a visitor to relieve you of our gabrielas.

thanks p...i am following most of those guidelines...but i have been a little lax on a couple of items....i trust the maestro and i have been working side by side with him, we have mutual "blue collar" understanding of the value of hard work and pride in workmanship, but i am well aware that money issues can ruin good relationships. good advice....thanks.

we have talked about the possibility of adding a second floor to this house next summer. he gave me a rough outline of how he would want to proceed....2x4 construction on top of the existing brick and concrete walls, insulation in the walls, a fire wall between our house and the other half of the "duplex".....not the cheap way to build in the short run....but i believe in paying for quality work and quality materials because it saves money in the long run.

we are working in a small space, so cleanliness is crucial. i am constantly clearing rubbish and sweeping and i hose down the work area every evening. workplace safety is an important issue to me, and i certainly don't medical bills on top of the expenses i already have, plus it is my home, so i want to keep the patio as clean as possible to keep the rest of the house clean. it has been a hot, dry summer and the dust from the cement and the sand finds its way into everything.

another factor that i haven't mentioned....the maestro lives two blocks away. he knows where i live, and i know where he lives, so we both know that if we mess with each other we will create a nearby enemy, which neither of us want.

we have agreed to do the work in phases and pay for each phase as it gets completed. i pay for materials at sodimac with my visa card and i have them delivered to the house. he gets half of the labor fee to start the job and the other half when the job is done. the payments are always made in the presence of a third party.

i have posted photos of the brick wall (muralla) in it's various phases, now completed. a side benefit of this work is that lots of possessions get "moved on"....old bicycles get given to people with younger children, we are making good progress on the carport (cobertiso). it will be 12 meters long, with 7 4x4 (actually 90mm x 90 mm) posts on each side, about 2 meters apart. we have 10 of the posts set and should finish the other 4 today.

the cobertiso will, in effect, add a couple of rooms to the house....a laundry/utility area, and an outdoor dining area/patio just off the kitchen. we will, at some point, probably set tiles over all of the old concrete, but that will depend on time and money after we get our high priority objective met....a second shower in the house. we were hoping to get that accomplished before the new school year started, but that ain't gonna happen, so we will just have to deal with the realities of remodeling a home while regular life goes on.

Cali---,

I really like the third party deal but you must still keep the record in writing. THe two block thing is reasonable but then also, think that an average grown man can throw a rock just about that far on any given day or night...I like your phases plan and the half labor, plus the visa--sodimac routine...con entrega a domcillio. I know that you are from LA, but don't get too relaxed with the help like we can do here...p lives in the OC and he knows how this goes...you think that you can, it seems resonable but remember its another continent, a different hemisphere and so things get out O'whack pretty fast and start twirling in the other direction, so The only thing i want for you is that you keep it cool, like Pulp Fiction, baby doll, know what I sey's N-g-r Dog? yu on da hood now, leaf rake...

p-p out

Eh? Sounds like you found a good maestro, anyway. That's about as good a start as you can hope for. I'm sure Puelche is right too, but I have lost my American phrasebook .

we observed an old chilean tradition last night....los tijerales....a big barbeque after a new structure gets framed, a kind of inauguration ceremony....everything was done in the old country style...puro campo....we put a chilean flag on the new structure, we used sawhorses and lumber for the table, cooked several kinds of meat (my vegetarian sister in law would have been horrified), ate the sausages and the chicken and the ribs and the steak right off the grill, ran out of beer a couple of times and walked to the botilleria for more.

the topic of protecting yourself from dishonest contractors has come up several times here. but there is another side to the story....the contractor needs to protect himself from dishonest home owners. the maestro told me that several home owners in the area owe him money, the work is finished, but he can't do anything about it. he said he likes the way our relationship is set up....he doesn't have to pay for materials, and his labor charge is contracted separately. he can buy high quality materials and do the job right, he doesn't have to pinch on quality materials to maintain his profit margin, and he knows he will get paid when the job is done.

i have interesting pics, and i have been able to upload them, and i can create folders....but i can't figure out how to move the pictures into the folders....the program isn't very intuitive....at least not to me...

gotta go...the maestro is here.....and he doesn't seem hungover from last night.

tis sunday, a day of rest. sort of. the cobertizo is finished and it looks great....12 meters long, 5 meters high, with 6 skylights (see photo gallery). i am impressed with the quality of the workmanship and the work rate of the maestro we hired. hopefully....after the first hard rain of the upcoming autumn, i will still be impressed.

there was about a 20% cost overrun on the job. ALL of the overrun was for materials....none for labor. the final cost was 1.281.000 pesos, and that includes EVERYTHING, including gas money for last minute trips to the hardware store and the food and beer for the tijerales, plus i have a good pile of useful scraps for my own furniture building plans. since i bought the materials, the leftover lumber and hardware is mine. i can use it myself, or return anything that is un-used. another big plus to the way we are going about this job.

a few observations about construction projects in chile vs those in the US:

* the cost structures are reversed. most of the cost of building in the US is for labor, not materials. this is reversed here in chile. about 70% materials, 30% labor.
* the hourly wages of experienced craftsmen are very low. the labor charges for the two jobs we have finished are about 3000 pesos per hour FOR TWO MEN. how they split that money is up to them.....and before this, i was feeling bad about working for 4700 pesos per hour as an english teacher.
* they use A LOT of iron here....almost every house has iron gates and fences and almost every project requires some kind of steel cutting and/or welding, and they use REALLY BIG NAILS! For most construction projects in the US, 16 penny nails are the biggest we use (3 1/2 inches). the maestro here was using 5" nails to build the trusses and attach them to the cross beams. he can do this because...
* the pine lumber is quite dense and heavy here. it can take A LOT of abuse from a hammer without splitting, and it will take and hold REALLY BIG NAILS. the downside is.....if you have pull out one of these REALLY BIG NAILS from this REALLY DENSE WOOD, then you'd better have a big crowbar and a lot of muscle.
* some of the building techniques seem to come from a need/desire to use every bit of scrap material...1/2 shingles, short rafters, etc. i assume that this is because buying the materials is a big sacrifice for most families and they can't afford to waste any of it. the appearance of the final product suffers somewhat, but i prefer this approach to the wasteful practices i have seen on many US job sites. the maestro we have is good about about not wasting materials...but he is also happy when we agree to buy enough good quality materials for him to do the job right and make it look good.

Phase III starts tomorrow....we are going to pour a new concrete pad for the patio/driveway, and then tile it with a beautiful red tile from spain we found at sodimac.....45 cm square....and about 40% more expensive than we were budgeted for....but...when the woman falls in love with the tile and she says she wants THAT tile and won't look at any others....what are ya gonna do?

next time....i won't take her to sodimac....

is it gonna cool down any time soon? we are sweating out a lot fluids every day. but now that we are going to work UNDER the patio roof instead on top of the patio roof, we should have an easier time with the heat.

I saw your pictures, it looks real good!