Chile Forum

I have a client that is going to try building essentially a ram earth house ( uses earth in plastic bags ). I have been thinking about the possibilities of incorporating heat pumps and pipes in to the walls and floors as such a house is built to enhance the already natural geothermal properties of the house.

Thanks for the rec, I will check out that site!

The solar thing is a huge question precisely because of the battery issue. I know in the US in some places you can have the extra electricity sent back to the local electric station as a sort of "credit" and then pull electric off them later when you don't have sun. I kinda doubt this is available in Chile. So I'm not really sure what route we'll go but we are meeting w/ our architect on-site on Saturday (Can I just tell you how much I can't wait for the warmth? We just got 12" of snow here yesterday, but I digress) so hopefully I'll have a clearer picture of whether this will be a possibility. One thing we are doing for sure is passive solar energy use i.e. designing the house in such a way that we take advantage of the suns warmth in the winter and stay away from it in the summer, and using double thick walls to insulate the interior temperature (be it warm or cold).

Allegro,
selling back to the grid through what is known here as grid tie. The grid tie unit is usually expensive, whether you sell enough back to make it worthwhile is debatable. Would think it unlikely this exists in Chile. Probably why battery banks and inverters are fairly popular. I mentioned old fork lift truck batteries as a number of people do this (its in the Frotter thread) and its been discussed on the veg. oil forum I belong to in conjunction with CHP setups. There is also quite a bit of info on reconditioning cells and pulse desulfator units about. UK scrap price was around 300GBP for fork lift batteries. I guess in Chile you either pay a fortune and import or make use of what is at hand locally.

Final thought:-
best battery source could be old submarine batteries if you know somebody in Armada maintenance.

While this is not geothermal, it is related in that I wanted to relay some prices for alternative energy systems - a micro-hydro electric set up Here it goes in CLP:

Inversor (invertor) 2,000 watt $531,193
Baterias 200 amp. (for 2) $127,330
Alternador(alternator 12 volt) $60,000
Cable 100 mts. $25,00
Turbine (hand crafted) 90,000
not included are the manguera, llave paso, and labor.

The system involves a tube coming from our main water source into a tank, the tank then sends the water in a fall down a steep 75 meter drop into the turbine, and back into the river. Our home will not have much as to electric, except a small fridge, computer, low-watt lights and on once in awhile (when we get stinky) a washer. The hot water and stove are gas, and primary source of heat is a Bosca. The house is 140 Square meters. I will let you know if I am disappointed and rip my hair out.

Cool,
what sort of alternator is it? Is it a car one, if so how will you gear up without losing a lot of efficiency. Or are you going for a permanent magnet like on some wind turbines so as to avoid hassle with slip ring brushes and get high efficiency at lower RPM with a direct coupling to your turbine.

Well after meeting with our architect I feel like I don´t have a lot more to contribute to this thread, but I indicated I would post whatever I found out... We seem to be thinking that the combination of passive solar design and possibly solar thermal energy are the way to go (in combination with a woodstove for heat). We´ve asked previously about the possibility of geothermal and I expected to learn more on Saturday but our architect seems shy about it and hadn´t found out more. He thought it was still a possibility, particularly for cooling because using roof design and ductwork, evidently the system can run sans electric, but he didn´t have specific info.

I am feeling a little frustrated about the Chilean time-table in which we seem to be working (ie Ah don´t worry, we´ll get it done, we´re ok on time, things will happen) because we are moving in just about 7 months and are still asking these questions. Also I feel like we are battling a Chilean-specific battle in that our architect seems very very concerned about cooling the house and not too concerned about heating. I understand it´s much warmer here but even in the century-old farm house we were staying in this weekend with very poor placement (large western windows and walls, no insulation) it was tolerable during the day and too cool at night. I know that the culture here is to deal with it but I do feel these extremes can be avoided with little or no energy use most of the time but I feel like I am facing resistence in dealing with it So anyway I guess we just have to be emphatic but we meet again at least once before I leave for the US on Fri and hopefully I will be more assured. Sorry to digress in this thread.

The up coming is a bit of a rant/warning that applies to anyone in the building industry or is looking to build a house…

In my opinion it is the Architect/Designers job to give the customer what they want. If they aren’t comfortable with what the customer is asking for then they should step away from the project and let someone else do it right.

If you want heat in your house he should be giving it to you with little or no resistance. And I hate to tell you that your house will more than likely not be done on time. 7 months for a whole house on any time table is good time. Now on a Chilean time table with out the owner hanging around pushing to get things done it is very unlikely. At best I would say that they house will be habitable… but not finished.

Not to mention you said you are still “thinking” of additional features (passive solar design and possibly solar thermal energy additions). So I am guessing that none of that is on paper yet so there is still that to design and get out to the field. Plus you mentioned duct work; right there I would be thinking “delay” because I have never seen a house in Chile with duct work. So I am guessing there aren’t too many people in the country that do it.

If the stars align and everything comes together they will be done your house the week before you are ready to move in. The company I work from now takes 7 – 8 months for a 1400 – 1600 sqft home from initial contact to completion. And we don’t do custom that much custom work, you pick your floor plan from our library add a few changes and we build it. Actual construction is about 5 months from when the first shovel hits the ground.

Jason, mightn't the timetable be shortened a bit by the greater simplicity (and lesser quality or precision) of Chilean construction? I ask as one who's never done more than aid a bit of carpentry on simple houses in the States, and I recognize that the presence of the owner to press for speed and quality would be essential to have the house habitable in seven months' time.

Ai ai ai. This is what I am afraid of. We have known of this project for over a year now and every time I tried to say, ah we need to get moving, everyone else said, oh we´re ok, we´re ok. Anyway, the idea is that the thinking will be completed this week. We have a general floor plan but obviously not blueprints, but I guess the idea is that the architect will inquire with some prefab companies to see if they can execute our plan, and I suppose that will expedite the process. Gratefully we have a backup apartment in Santiago, but the work is at the farm and the farmhouse is ancient and cold and without great plumbing and I just can´t live there!! So. I will try to keep positive I suppose. The architect is a close family friend but I guess that doesn´t mean everything. Eeeeek.

RWS wrote:Jason, mightn't the timetable be shortened a bit by the greater simplicity (and lesser quality or precision) of Chilean construction? I ask as one who's never done more than aid a bit of carpentry on simple houses in the States, and I recognize that the presence of the owner to press for speed and quality would be essential to have the house habitable in seven months' time.

Depends on the materials being used, and the workers knowledge of the materials.
Our 1600 sqft house here in Canada took 3-4 days to frame. A brick house of similar size with the same number of people working on would probably take a bit longer. As a general rule you are only supposed to do 4 vertical feet of wall a day. Plus you have to run your electrical through the brick… if you want it to look good. But after that you should be more or less done your walls unlike a wood framed house. Also from the original post about the house I gathered that it isn’t your typical Chilean house that they are building.

But you do have a good point; a simple, typical (poorly constructed) house in Chile should take less time.

The "gringo way" usually fails here, perhaps you may better think to develop your home in organic way, starting with some basic and making the sophisticated along the time, the fun will last more this way

Winter in Chile is not so extreme and most of homes can do it perfectly with a couple of stoves, you may start this way and then implement with calm a better heating system. If you want everything in short time probably you will be dissapointed and will spend a lot of aditional money, things move slowly here

tombrad2 wrote:...Winter in Chile is not so extreme and most of homes can do it perfectly with a couple of stoves...

That’s one of the main misconceptions most Chileans have. Insulating and properly constructing your house are not only needed for winter. A well insulated house would be a great investment for the hot summers.

In Santiago, If you the house is build right you could probably heat and cool your house all year for 2/3’s of one heating season in a house with no insulation.