Chile Forum

Putenio wrote:Agreed, and this week should be interesting.

Not gold, but sheep, plums, apples, cherries, seeds & tools. They should count for something in a pinch.

Yes, and let's not forget clean water and good health.

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:I shake my head at what is happening in the States.

Does anyone have a handle on sticking our workers and future generations in the US with a debt bill for a further $9.7 trillion dollars? Can anyone even count to just ONE trillion?

And people want to focus on and argue about change and the noble fairy tale qualities of the new USA administration.

Blind is blind.

If you haven't taken an insurance or defensive position in gold ... and think your USA based pension will always be there ... well ...

I forgot the logic as to why discussions of the US national debt do not include anticipated shortfalls of Social Security and Medicare. Once these numbers are included, total US debt is between 50 and 100 trillion, not 10 trillion.

Bernanke's injections into the banking system may have prevented an incredible (and unnecessary?) panic. We'll never really know. The Bernanke effect: 1 to 3 trillion, perhaps .. of 50 to 100 trillion.

Paulsen's TARP was exactly as it was written: a heavy-handed power play to buy time and survivability for his WallStreet world consisting of usurious predators that apparently saw no harm in crippling the common worker through risky credit card and mortgage contracts, then reselling these contracts worldwide into an endless chain of paper devoid of any accountability to them.

Paulsen's pass of the cookie jar to his playmates (before Congress actually read the bill they passed): a mere 350 billion of the 50 to 100 trillion US debt.

Many hope the "stimulus package" will create a world of new work which will "multiply" in time and lead us toward more constructive, real and self-sustaining productivity which can build upon itself. Obama's sliver of hope: 793 billion of the 50 to 100 trillion.

Perhaps all this recent deficit spending is not soooo much money after all ... with an effective total of 50 to 100 trillion in mind!!

Its tough. Future genearations will have to pay for all this 50 to 100 trillion. On the other hand, if we don't try to create a world economy which produces real value that feeds and educates and clothes and heals people so they can work, and manages our environment so every generation can be most productive -- future generations will pay in worse ways.

Whatever is done .. I say get those WallStreet, Ivey League sharks out of the water. I say let an ecology of real productivity (from the bottom of the food chain up) finally have a chance. The predators over-preyed and there is nothing left for them to feed on. Let them starve and shrivel so that the rest of the system can be renewed.

Now that the "ecosystem" is starved-out, a new and working synthesis will take a while to reveal itself. I like what someone else wrote here - the world of 1930 could not have possibly have envisioned the world of 1946. Scary to me is the HUGE array of atomic and other methods of resolving social conflict we have accumulated since then.

Hello from Sonoma, calif:

I still live in the U.S. and recently retired at 62. What worries me most about this crisis is the possible social unrest that may develop given the likely significant longterm economic decline here in the states. Which has generated an interest in possiblity movin either part or all year to Chile. I recently came accross this site and have found it helpful and look forward to reading what others are experiencing in Chile.

lineup32 wrote:Hello from Sonoma, calif:

I still live in the U.S. and recently retired at 62. What worries me most about this crisis is the possible social unrest that may develop given the likely significant longterm economic decline here in the states. Which has generated an interest in possiblity movin either part or all year to Chile.

LOL! So now with the global downturn ... in US there will be even more Ponzi schemes, no-bid government contracts, and street murders over Nike sneakers !!

No, I know what you mean. But Chile has more challenges relating to poverty than the US I'm guessing ... even before the slowdown of the US economy. And this slowdown is global, so life won't be any easier for economically-challenged Chileans, either. Something else, I think, is different about our concerns living in North America -- especially in parts of the US.

I think there is a materialistic (and in my opinion, shallow and dangerous) characteristic of US culture which has likely been worsened by a half-century of Madison Avenue programming. US Americans will kill each other (or conspire to steal each other's life savings) over SUVs and Park Avenue penthouses. They will seriously harm one another over things quite unnecessary for life and real happiness.

At the same time, we all know that criminality and corruption are indicative of human nature and communities everywhere.

Lineup, some in my family hail from Santa Rosa. Sonoma does not seem like such a dangerous spot.

If you are worried about sudden outbursts of violent, widespread, social unrest ... places like Atlanta (probably the worldwide intersection of gun country with shallow materialism) and Phoenix and Los Angeles (cartels), and Chicago, Detroit (US gangs), etc. would probably be riskier places to settle. I can't speak for Chile ... because like you I just read this site. For that matter, I can't speak for Sonoma, either. I've heard about the problems with your gun-toting pot farmers, however.

Surely much of the world is suffering additionally from the global downturn. And we all know that portions of societies everywhere have already been suffering and for years -- despite any "downturn".

There should be a statistic on the natural inclination of a people to smile even with bad teeth. I would then look for an inverse correlation with violent crime stats. In this way I could find a place where I'd be most eager to live, invest, contribute socially, and risk my safety ... regardless of global economic challenges.

The question I use to guage criminal behavior is whether a crime is necessary for life or death survival, or not. The perspective I use to guage corruption within a culture is: How exclusive does it appear to be? Can anyone pay to play - or only a wealthy and well-connected few?

One interest I have in Chile is that the costs of the loss of freedom may be fresh within recent memory there.

Whereas in North America, the situation is becoming more authoritarian every year. For example, large corporate interests have teamed up with each other, even with governments, to use the tools of the information and communications age to gather and share information on the people that the people themselves can't hardly access, or -- for that matter -- hardly deny even when it is false. Meanwhile, the EU is going to great lengths to protect its people from these same forces.

Many people over here are shutting down from their full potential of economic participation because of threats to the loss of privacy and other freedoms. I wonder when some economist might begin to measure the negative effects of all this on productivity and growth.

To be fair, however, the loss of freedom and privacy is something that the majority of North Americans appear to be choosing because of the fear of the threat of crime and violence.

If domestic crime and international terrorism (or simply the fear of these) increase as a result of the international economic slowdown, I'm guessing that loss of privacy and freedom will only deepen in the US and Canada. The jury is still out on whether this will help or hinder economic productivity.

Frontline programme explaining the US banking meltdown.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

Guys, you gotta watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wTE4e4sSXU

I am starting to wonder if my dream about the collapse of the Euro was that far off:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EU-has-so ... Zs6Gq7YWsA

I could see the story running something like this:

Two or three European nations default on their debt, the EU moves to bail them out, the Euro starts being devalued as investors run from it. A vicious circle of collapses and bailouts ensues, until one of the strong EU economies like Germany or France decide to call it quits in limited withdrawal from the EU but not the Euro in an attempt to have more freedom to run deficits greater than the EU limits allow. Some of the eastern neighbors pull out to revalue their currency, and kick start their economy. Satellite members such as the UK or others without the Euro also pull out. A massive flight to safety starts in to currencies such as the Swiss frank and the dollar. Global recession moves to a clear global depression (soft depression).

I read an interesting article yesterday about how to define a "depression". One thing they pointed out was that until 1937, every "recession" was called a "depression". The term "recession" came in to use after the 1933 collapse, and people did not want to describe the 1937 collapse as a "depression" because they did not want to scare people after the trauma associated with the severity of the 1933 collapse.

In other news, Chile starts a one time stimulus payment today directly to 700,000 Chileans that are registered in the social security system that make less that 450,000 pesos a month. I am not exactly sure of the amount, but it was suppose to be a lot of money. At least Chile has the good sense to bailout the people that need bailing out and to do it quickly, not the CEO's at the top of the food chain. If you bail out the little guy, the CEO's will be just fine.

By the way, you might want to try to avoid getting caught in the bank lines this week if you can in Chile.

Really getting annoyed by the USD/CLP rate.... 603 on XE the other day, actually got ~580 taking out of the ATM.

Coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/B ... 3342A5A%7D

Maby

Investors are now waiting for concrete evidence that global growth is coming. If they don't get it, those rallying emerging markets are set to give up their gains, analysts warn

gregf wrote:Really getting annoyed by the USD/CLP rate.... 603 on XE the other day, actually got ~580 taking out of the ATM.

I received 597 on Monday midday with my Everbank Visa debit card on the PLUS system. About two hours before the transaction, the xe.com rate was hovering roughly around 601-602 when I left el dpto. Is your calc before or after fees, PLUS or CIRRUS system?