Chile Forum

Tatiana's cut and paste approach to threads is refreshing, I had gotten tired of actually reading the individual posts. Now I only have to read one with her name on it and I've read them all.

el puelche wrote:Iand the shit list continues.

When building in Chile, the thing to remember is that the project survives in its own orbit...there is nothing before or after and its only what you can do that matters....not how its done in Iquique or Punta Arenas....its a battle that is fought bullet by bullet, not by day or by week..its not all about money but time and how time divides into MONEY....so really its about money...


p out


.

It's a battle fought NAIL BY NAIL. It's about money, and paying attention, and I might be wrong, but I also feel now that my builder felt like since I didn't know anything about building, that he could scrape a little more profit into his pocket by scrimping on materials. Non-galvanized nails, for instance (what a cheap SOB) for deck and other places...rusted hinges on windows and doors...considering a house finished with NO sealant,or varnish on any of the outside exposed wood. No, that wasn't being cheap as much as he thought "F-IT", they are gringos. I see houses being built in town and a finished house INCLUDES finishing the outside windows, doors, siding. It just got down to the details... and he thought he had nothing to lose. Except it turns out perhaps, part of his final payment. The locals having houses built now are getting much better finish work out of their builders than I did.

So, screw it! I have his last payment, and we are finishing things, slowly, but surely. And when it's done, and if he has the cajones to ask for the rest of his money, I'll set up a meeting with our attorney and present him with the list of materials and labor, deduct that from the final payment and shove the ....no, sorry....

Anyway, I just would not have thought to look at nails. I would not have thought to take a ladder and climb up to look around every second story window. I think that at every part of construction, you must be there, or find yourself in my spot. Gotta catch those lazy mistakes and omissions as they happen , or prevent them before.

Tatiana wrote: Of course... the construction in Chile is made most of masonry, brick, reenforced concrete. I mean, the good one. ...massive walls in brick. Everything wet construction. A house for 200 years at least, like the ones in most of western Europe.

Really, there are a couple good points here. The masonary type Chilean house is impervious to earthquakes, cool inside in summer(air conditioning not needed), forget about bothering with fire insurance. I'm certainly not anti wood construction but there is much to be said for these types of houses, especially with high humidity and the problems of finding truly dry wood for construction.

I just wanted to say that both sides have some good points here. We built a house here, with the basic house being in the traditional brick and masonry concept. Of course we had to make some changes to make it a little more Norteamericano-friendly and watch our workers every step of the way. Construction projects are difficult anywhere(I had an addition built in the states and the devil was in the details there as well), It's many more times that difficult here because we often don't understand the "why" of their particular methods. Those methods sometimes have a real basis- but many times don't - and it takes some research and communication to get it all done(or at least come close). Contractors here(like anywhere) charge a lot of money to handle all those details but unless they think exactly like you do, it still won't be what you want. The whole construction process was frustrating but then, it generally is anywhere. Complaining, to some extent, is perfectly okay(in my opinion) because it may help someone else avoid pitfalls. Wood construction in Chile is pitiful but I also believe that the traditional non-wood frame houses deserve some praise.

Expect things to be difficult and be pleasantly surprised when that worker does exactly what he was supposed to do or when that customer service clerk finds exactly the product you're looking for or...the house is finished and you can watch the sunset....

Laura55llc wrote:Really, there are a couple good points here. The masonary type Chilean house is impervious to earthquakes, cool inside in summer(air conditioning not needed), forget about bothering with fire insurance. I'm certainly not anti wood construction but there is much to be said for these types of houses, especially with high humidity and the problems of finding truly dry wood for construction.

Actually from someone in the housing industry a properly structured wood frame house will perform better in earthquakes than the masonry. Masonry is heavy and ridged; it doesn't flex well when you have those types of loads. And when they fail, they fail in a big way. Where a properly constructed wood framed house is more flexible and lighter, if it has the proper protection against sheer loads it won’t fall down. Most Chilean companies (or most specifically people that but up wood structures) are not aware of the measures needed to properly protect against earthquakes… so their work falls down. Also a properly constructed wood frame house will not rot or grow mold.

For example, how many bathrooms in Chile have you seen with a fan, or cement board backer in the shower? Not many... they don’t do it cause they don’t think it is necessary… it cost more, doesn’t look nice, and from what they know it doesn’t serve a purpose. But it is that purpose that justifies the other 2 and will save you 5 bathroom repairs or replacements for the cost of a fan and some cement board behind your tile in the shower.

That that is they way Chileans think… why buy one that is 50% more and will last me 12 months when I can get a new one every month. They don’t see the value in quality; they just see the lower price tag. As an example… my mother in law would buy the cheapest laundry detergent she could find… and have to use relatively huge amounts of soap to clean the clothes, when we moved back to Canada we gave her the Ace we had left over. More expensive but she used significantly less for each load of laundry, I don’t think she has gone back to the old stuff once she saw that for a little bit more money you will get a product that will last you twice as long.

To Tatiana…

There are 1000 year old houses in Newfoundland made of sod and I bet they look fairly similar to the way they were built 1000 years ago. But that doesn’t mean that is the best form of construction. Concrete and brick have their uses… make a strong structure is one of them… making something that looks good and is comfortable year round is not. Concrete and brick change with the seasons, they are hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

Jason Roesler
ISH

When something comes down on me in an earthquake, I would prefer it is something that leaves me with just a bump on the head and can be pushed off rather than a building full of concrete and brick.

Of the few that remain, almost every 100+ year old building I have seen in Chile made of stone, concrete, brick, or adobe has earthquake damage or has gone through a major overhaul to hide earthquake damage. You will see a lot of steel beams added over the years. The bricks rarely still holding themselves together, the steel braces are. They are often not very obvious, as the cracks have been painted over or filled. If you know where to look however, they are there.

I think we've moved past the gist of Tatty's post which was that Americans think everything they do is "right" or "the best" and nobody else has a clue.
OK Tatty we're busted. pass me those adobe bricks.

Funny, Not everyone here is your standard issue American anyway!

I will be very interested to see the house we have invested in, next week. It is being built by a maestro that my cousin trusts and my husband, A master carpenter, framer, finish carpenter and a cabinet maker by trade, met and went to the maestros own house and was very impressed with his work. I will have "something" to say next week from Llifen.

I wasn't aware we were talking about trailer parks in this thread.

If you take a category and then compare the worst in the US and the best in Chile in that category, then chances are that Chile will come up on top. So what.

The point is that in order to get the best job done in Chile, supervision is the key. I have heard this from people who aren't Americans. I think that it is not that you can't get good work done in Chile, but it is harder to find on the average.