Chile Forum

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:As a 7 + year resident, 5 of those in Santiago, most of the recent upswing occurred after Bachelet was elected. The impression is she does not give a damn about the issue.

I wonder if it's really a lack of caring, ineptitude, or a calculated choice to let things get worse, to create political capital for swweping changes. Politics are never what they seem. She comes from a liberal, left background. What better way to generate the impetus for expanded social programs than to let the "have nots" run wild, threatening the "haves." Let it turn into a crisis. Then have the debate over prisons versus social programs (both transfers of wealth), greater government involvement, etc.

I'm cynical that way.

Mark

Now you're sounding like me. You are one chameleon on internet board conversations and debates.

You are on the mark about the "run wild" comment as this is was has literally happened with the number, frequency, level of violence, destruction of public property (that even us gringo non-resident "tourist" expats pay via IVA) of public protests within the country since Bachelet was elected.

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Now you're sounding like me. You are one chameleon on internet board conversations and debates.

Sorry. Not sure what was disingenuous or non-transparent about what I said. I wasn't saying I approve or disapprove. I think the topic of criminology and offender rehabilitation is complex. I see both sides.

Mark

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:. . . . As a 7 + year resident, 5 of those in Santiago, most of the recent upswing occurred after Bachelet was elected. . . .

I have to ask, EE.UU.: did your move out of Santiago have anything to do with her election?

PRECIOSA_FLOR, are there any favorites that you can recommend at El Creek?

RWS,

No it was my bronchitis that developed in year 4, an increase in my rent and the original plan to eventually move to some other part of the country in that order.

On the top floor of that apartment, I had the best seat in town to view the Torre Entel NYE fireworks with a direct view of the buildings downtown, Iglesia San Francisco and views (later obscured by new construction) of Cerro Santa Lucia and Cerro San Cristobal.

I remember how the usually traffic dead Sunday streets came alive the day of Masul's and Gonzalez's Olympic victory, watching the cat and mouse game between the students and Carabineros during the initial large student protests, being able to view the incoming aircraft on their way to a fly over of Parque O'Higgins during the 19th military parades, the use of Santa Rosa and nearby streets as staging areas for the military parade marchers, the streets coming alive again after the Bachelet election and the noise and crowds at the Iglesia San Francisco and Avenida Santa Rosa the night of the official Bachelet celebrations. This is where I lived on the edge getting the Hemingway out of my system at the (used to be) 24 hour fuentes, schoperias and restaurants. Where I met my pareja. Where my grounding of what Chile IS (the Santiago and urban part anyways) developed and solidified.

Now, I'm just a viejo cu ... ooopps ... living in a tranquil community on the coast.

And I remember a certain day in September 2001 waking up that morning expecting a day of protests and localized disorder in Santiago and instead watching incredulously via the live feed on CNN español, which all the Santiago stations had switched to, as the Towers fell. I wondered if I would be able to travel to the USA in December for Christmas when it was announced all air travel within, into and out was suspended.

My research beginning from that day shocked me so much that my 1 year trial and experiment in international living became a determination to live permanently as an overseas resident.

That is all I will say on that subject. Got some chores to do.

¡¡VIVA CHILE .... MIERDA!!

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:My research beginning from that day shocked me so much that my 1 year trial and experiment in international living became a determination to live permanently as an overseas resident.

I think I understand your previous comment about me sounding like you. (Remember, I'm new and don't know everyone's views.). I don't go that far (that the US allowed or participated in 9/11). But, I agree it's the same logic, and a matter of degrees. I wouldn't put it past any government to do that. But, I the evidence doesn't stack up for me.

Mark

Again, as usual you try to hijack the thread on an off-topic debate. Poor loreleiah and her attempt to just find info on places to live.

Research with half a brain and with true acceptance of the ramifications and truth ... that is another thread.

Noches to you and all your buds in Building 7.

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:Again, as usual you try to hijack the thread on an off-topic debate.

EEUU, you need to lose the passive aggression ("I don't care, but I do"). I was only responding to your comments. Not trying to hijack anything.

I've gathered from other comments that you enjoy imbibing in the spirits. Have you had a few today?

Mark

On crime increase, I used to work in Tribunales de Arica almost for 10 years as contractor and I make lot of friends from Ministros y jueces to delincuentes. I syudied in depth the old system problems due my involvement in investment projects and even in 1997 I conducted a study on the carga de trabajo de tribunales.

For me the cause of increase of delincuency is the Reforma Procesal Penal imposed since 2000 against the will of almost every judge and minister, who foresaw the problems coming with the new system, it was same as big fiasco as Transantiago, it costed many billion dollars and the results was an explosive increse of delinquency.

Jails are full now but people go in and out in few days, it is so mild the sanction to crime that it turned on the best business in Chile, profitable and risk free, that is why jails are full, because crime is more rentable than ever and almost risk free and number of criminals increased hugely. Is what we chilean call "la puerta giratoria"

tombrad2 wrote:On crime increase, I used to work in Tribunales de Arica almost for 10 years as contractor and I make lot of friends from Ministros y jueces to delincuentes. I syudied in depth the old system problems due my involvement in investment projects and even in 1997 I conducted a study on the carga de trabajo de tribunales.

For me the cause of increase of delincuency is the Reforma Procesal Penal imposed since 2000 against the will of almost every judge and minister, who foresaw the problems coming with the new system . . . .

I've heard the same from Chilean friends and relatives, not only poorish (thus more likely, perhaps, to be victims of scarcely punished criminals) but rich and well-connected (none of whom has told me of having suffered directly from any personal crime). It's one reason why I find the adhesion of the majority of Chilean voters to the present two-decade-long government difficult to understand (of course, much the same could have been said of the past two decades of federal government here in the States, too).

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:. . . . it was my bronchitis . . . , an increase in my rent and the original plan to eventually move to some other part of the country in that order [that took me out of Santiago].

On the top floor of that apartment, I had the best seat in town to view the Torre Entel NYE fireworks with a direct view of the buildings downtown, Iglesia San Francisco and views (later obscured by new construction) of Cerro Santa Lucia and Cerro San Cristobal. . . .

A charming description of life in the big city, EE.UU. I certainly think that your location (from my limited acquaintance with it) was very convenient and nice. But as neither big-city living nor the nearly unbelieveable pollution that suffocates wintertime Santiago holds much long-term appeal for me, I would myself, I think, have followed your lead in moving away.

tombrad2 wrote:For me the cause of increase of delincuency is the Reforma Procesal Penal imposed since 2000 against the will of almost every judge and minister, who foresaw the problems coming with the new system, it was same as big fiasco as Transantiago, it costed many billion dollars and the results was an explosive increse of delinquency.

How did the reform increase crime and delinquency? The natural assumption is that it went soft on crime. But, you said the jails are full. It sounds like something more complicated happened?

Mark