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Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby admin on Sun May 25, 2008 9:38 am

A bridge on the main highway connecting central and southern Chile was cut in the 7th region (think I got that right) by floods. There is over 14 km line of cars and trucks waiting to cross.


Not even regular mail and shipping is getting through. Last week we had to get an urgent package to an office in Santiago. Chile Express, tur bus, where all out of businesses. We finally had to send it by plane on Lan courier, but from the airport. No pickups. We sent our driver to the airport in Temuco, and then had our driver in Santiago pick it up from the airport and deliver it. expensive mess.

DECENTRALIZE CHILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby RWS on Sun May 25, 2008 9:46 am

admin wrote:. . . . DECENTRALIZE CHILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would solve many a problem. And reduce governmental domination of economic and private life.

When it comes to government, at least, less is almost always better.
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby Vicki and Greg Lansen on Sun May 25, 2008 10:20 am

The "disconnect" has always been a problem down in this next of the woods. Even on a good day (week, month, year) getting mail and supplies across the no mans land is a long process. To get anything in and out of Futa/Chaiten/Palena etc. you deal with buses/boats/planes. Throw heavy, snow, a landslide, high seas, or just about any other weather event in and you get a major disruption in the supply line.
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby admin on Sun May 25, 2008 10:24 am

yea, the kids down in Palena likely never even noticed anything was wrong.


They are suppose to have it up and running again Monday. It was a major bridge, on a major river, on a major highway.

The president was just talking in the state of the union address about direct elections of regional governors and such.
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby Gloria on Sun May 25, 2008 2:31 pm

WE ARE STUCK HERE IN SANTIAGO SINCE THIS HAPPENED AND I DON´T KNOW HOW TO SWIM.... WE CAN´T GET TO VALDIVIA !!!:cry: :cry: WELCOME TO CHILE!
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby MarkF on Sun May 25, 2008 3:35 pm

RWS wrote:When it comes to government, at least, less is almost always better.


It's been my impression this almost always boils down the perspective of "who's ox is being gored." For example, in the US there are people who consider themselves Adam Smith free-marketeers. They vocally oppose any new government regulation of markets merely on the principle that less government is better. But, they are remarkably silent as they benefit from numerous things like

- The Securities and Exchange Commission (which regulates the stock market, eliminating true "caveat emptor" from what would otherwise be a raw, "free" market in the most absolute, Darwinian sense of the word.).
- Banking regulations (which do much of the same thing, including preventing banks from issuing currency like they did in the early 1800s, often not recognizing the currency of another bank -- or even their own).
- Food and drug quality laws (eliminating a wide swath of willing buyers and sellers, a fundamental principle of free markets.).
- Creation of "corporate" entities by society (state legislatures.) A fictional yet legal "person" to serve as the fall guy, shielding officers and investors from the personal liability which naturally goes with personally running a company, and co-ownership. In fact, without this basis of "corporations" there probably wouldn't be a stock market. Therefore, we could say the stock market is hugely dependent upon government (beyond SEC regulation).
- Zoning laws and building codes restricting how an individual can dispose of their property. I don't know too many people who emphasize free markets who'd be ok with their neighbor converting their single-family residence into a bordello just because it's a free market (and the owner's property).

Rather than government being inherently bad, I think it's really a matter of what is (or isn't) effective. Effectiveness being in the eye of the beholder, it's usually just the base human condition: "don't gore my ox" amplified by majoritarianism (or mobocracy).

Just my two cents.

Mark
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby helibel on Sun May 25, 2008 5:06 pm

Well, I for one am lost. I understand Gloria is stuck, I don't understand how a de centralised government could be better in a situation where its obvious more infrastructure is needed, Like two bridges and an alternate route (not involving Argentina) to anywhere, is vital for the normal functioning of anything. Do you mean that if the government were de centralised you wouldn't have had to send the package to Santiago??? That still wouldn't have helped Gloria. Am I missing something? (good thing terrorist are not a problem at the momemt , but who needs them when we have , volcanos, floods, earthquakes, tsunamis etc.)
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby admin on Sun May 25, 2008 5:41 pm

Let us call it the central corridor problem. It is a little bit more than just Santiago, and stretches to include most national infrastructure between the ocean such as Vina and Valpo, East to Santiago.

Government offices
About 90% of the documents we send to Santiago are because there are no regional offices. How often (for those in the U.S.), do people in the U.S. need to send government documents to Washington D.C. and can only send them to an office in Washington? In fact, I do not believe in my entire life I have ever had to send a document to Washington.

Even when there are regional offices, they have to send the documents to Santiago to be approved and have no authority or capacity to approve them.

Communications
That is just government documents. Imagine one of those volcanoes outside of Santiago pulled a Chaiten? Almost all telephone and internet communication for Chile goes through Santiago (likely better than 99.9%). When I traceroute my internet connections, to the outside world I am seen as being in Santiago. All the telecommunication trunks are there. Add all mail and shipping, in spite of places like Puerto Montt, go through the central region and Santiago first.

If you send a container to Puerto Montt, it gets taken off a ship in the central region, put on a truck, and driven across that bridge that is down. It may not even go through customs until it reaches Puerto Montt, even though it has been off the ship for over a week. Almost everything produced in Chile, gets sent to the central region for final processing and packaging. Even if it was say grown or raised in Southern Chile.

Corporate head quarters
Company head quarters are all in Santiago. A lot of the bad customer service in southern Chile can be traced to the fact that no more than figured head management exist in southern Chile. In most companies (Ripley, telefonica, vtr, and so on) the local managers are almost never authorized to anything as simple as correcting a mistake on a bill. They send it to Santiago for approval, even if they are telling you no problem. Like two years ago VTR's computer system went down, and no one had internet in Southern Chile or could even pay a bill by walking in to the main office. The office here could not call Santiago, because they use the same phone and internet system that was down and requires the computer system to function. VTR could not call VTR.

Everywhere we go in terms of government spending we hear complaints about how the government in Santiago, in order to get their money in the first place, requires them to hire certain consulting firms and only those firms to tell them how to spend the money. When done the little town such as Futa and a million others can end up with as little as 25% of the money allocated to their local infrastructure projects. Even at that, they end up being forced to hire contractors out of Santiago to do the work such as paving roads, rather than hiring local people or companies. Short of the rocks in the concrete being from a local river bed, not much else in the streets and sidewalks are from Southern Chile. The government allocation system is structured to allow a very narrow subsections of national companies to qualify for the contracts. Chile compras system is designed to add transparency, but really it just excludes all but biggest companies from competing or at least the preselected. The contracts get drafted in such a way that only one or two companies could ever qualify.

Well, I am sure I could crash the chile forum server ranting about this, but you get the picture. Decentralization would make for a stronger country, less vulnerable to disasters, more diversity in participation, help even the social and economic playing field. There are a lot of laws in the hopper to do this right now. The government has recognized that it has to be done just because having all their eggs in one basket is not getting the practical jobs on the ground done. I am all for it.

I would qualify that it still needs some centralized control, or we end up with super rich and super poor towns and regions. I am in no way advocating that Chile turn to a State like federal system as in the U.S. Just a little more say from local people about local issues. A little more independence, just not so much that they hang themselves with it.
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby helibel on Sun May 25, 2008 6:02 pm

Got it!
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby Vicki and Greg Lansen on Sun May 25, 2008 6:21 pm

Gloria wrote:WE ARE STUCK HERE IN SANTIAGO SINCE THIS HAPPENED AND I DON´T KNOW HOW TO SWIM.... WE CAN´T GET TO VALDIVIA !!!:cry: :cry: WELCOME TO CHILE!


AAAHHH! Gloria! Welcome! It's wonderful to see you on the forum again. One suggestion...shop, and enjoy! And again, truly great to see you on here again. How does it feel to be home (aside from the recent uh-ohs that Chile has experienced)?

Vicki
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Re: Panamerican highway cut in the 7th region

Postby mlightheart on Sun May 25, 2008 7:23 pm

Gloria, so near, yet so far. Glad to see you made it back to your homeland! You'll make it down to Valdivia soon enough.
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