Chile Forum

I must be missing something here. Why must you purchase insurance, Vicki? To be able to take gasoline out of Argentina?

I think I've the reason: to be able to drive your own, foreign-registered motor vehicle in Argentina. Not unusual, I suppose.

The insurance is to drive in Argentina. However, it seems the restriction on extra tanks of gas or diesel is on the Chile side. Still stinks. It would be worth it to buy the insurance for driving the vehicle into Argentina if we could buy fuel for the truck and chainsaw.

Vicki and everyone else:

I spend a lot of time in Futa each year and I've given the Petrol problem some thought. It really is a huge problem that needs to be solved. I've brought down a neat siphon that doesn't require you to swallow a lot of gas that I use. I've had my fill of the nearly empty tank to Trevilene routine. I brought back about 340 gallons of gas and diesel from La Junta once. As I skidded around on the gravel with all that weight in the back I was afraid I would wreck and incinerate myself in a huge fireball. This problem needs a solution!

I have some ideas that I would like feedback on from anyone in the forum.

1) Bio Diesel will not solve the worlds energy problems but it might be great in Futa. You can get a machine to make bio diesel for about $4500 US. It makes diesel that you can use in a vehicle from discarded (or new) vegetable or animal oil. No modification to the diesel engine is required. You can make enough diesel to fill your tank in about 48 hours. The problem is that I haven't been able to come up with a cheap source for vegetable or animal oil in Futa. Argentina was rationing vegetable oil last summer. In the states people are making bio diesel out of the discarded oil from fast-food places. Does anybody know of a crop that grows like a weed in Futa that one could make oil out of? Like rose-hips, or Kudzu for example?

2) Ethynol. You could probably make this out of the rose hips that grow everywhere down there. Problem is that some engine modification would be required.

3) Propane. They do sell propane in Futa. With a carburator modification, you can run a vehicle on propane. A lot of farmers in the states do this. You can even run a tractor on Propane. I've never seen a propane powered chainsaw though. I have located a place that sells generators that run on either gas or propane--that could be handy. I've been trying to find a place that sells propane powered outboard motors. No luck yet. I've got a few leads on shops that will custom make the modification for you.

4) A gas station for Futa. This is pretty obvious. Someone needs to open a gas station in Futa. Nothing fancy. Just a pump or two. For about $100,000 and a lean on a $100,000 piece of property you could open a gas station in Futa.

5) Hydrogen. Perhaps Futa is a place where a hydrogen economy could flourish. The Japanese have some prototype vehicles. Maybe they need a place to beta test them. Futa would be perfect. The refuling stations, that make hydrogen from water can be purchased for fairly cheaply (compared to a gas station). Perhaps a group of us could invest in a refuling station and a hydrogen vehicle dealership!

Perhaps we should forget about the soon to be abandoned petrol economy and move on into the future of Hydrogen or bio diesel! Or buy a horse or two

Regards,

Kel

Charles,

Before you blow a gasket...I don't know which side prohibits fuel in auxillary tanks. I "assumed" is was Chile, but then, it's me...you know me, I have no clue!

Kel...yes great idea for bio-fuel and ethanol. A great project for the school to get going on since I can't hardly can tomatoes! We had some friends in Panama who did the blended fuel thing...went around and collected used cooking oil and with very little effort made their own. As you might know, there aren't many deep-fryers in restaurants, nor do people deep fry much here. And cooking oil is expensive. And as I'm deathly afraid of horses, I'm thinking rickshaw, with a nice little harness for Greg!

All joking aside, some kind of oil independence for Futa would be incredible. But it's not just the vehicles, but the chain saws, and generators. Now, for those things run by generator, some hydro-type set up would be good. But how do you convert a chain saw. I would really love to see Futa take a lead on alternative energy. Solar would be only supplemental considering the long, dark winters, but there are many arroyos coming down from the surrounding ridges that would make great energy sources without impacting nature.

Distances for supplies and fuel:

Meats, cheese and any dairy, fruits, vegetables, combustables, lumber, dog, or cat food, animal feed, plant material, agricultural supplies (seeds, seed corn, starts,) are not permitted across the border.

Futaleufú a Chaitén : 156 Km Closed
Futaleufú a Villa Sta. Lucía : 81 Km (no gas station and no stores of any significance)
Futaleufú a La Junta : 154 Km
Futaleufú a Puyuhuapi : 198 Km
Futaleufú a Coyhaique : 412 Km
Futaleufú a Cochrane : 766 Km
Futaleufú a Villa O’Higgins : 978 Km
Futaleufú a Trevelin : 49 Km (Argentina)
Futaleufú a Esquel : 73 Km (Argentina)
Futaleufú a El Bolsón : 250 Km (Argentina)
Futaleufú a Bariloche : 380 Km (Argentina)
Futaleufú a Osorno : 661 Km
Futaleufú a Puerto Montt : 770 Km
Futaleufú a Puerto Madryn : 744 Km

Not so good! 'Reminds me of my years in Colorado long ago, long before immigration and high birthrates pushed its population to a million and even more. The only resolutions are found in the old Yankee folk proverb -- "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, do without" -- and prayer -- lots of it.

R-

Yes, "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, do without" that's a good quote, or saying. And it's the mantra here. The locals just deal with it, and we are learning to go with the flow. As much as I bitch about the gas thing, it's very freeing in a way. And after a while here we learned that to travel, even 20 k's outside of "town" you go prepared with an overnight bag and ALWAYS your emergency stuff. Actually, that was how it was for us in the remote highlands of Panama, but here, the cold weather creates a different urgency.

Update on Futa: More rain. We had one rain-free day with sunshine in over two weeks and I was too sick with the flu to step out and get some sunshine. I'm better now and it's back to raining...hard. Because there is still a substantial accumulation of ash in backyards and around houses, we have to keep on top of shoveling water troughs to keep the water from coming into the house. Big shipments of fresh vegetables came this week, and stores are well stocked. We had three days with no phone service, but the internet was mysteriously working. I've seen a couple of townfolk meetings but have no idea what they were about - petition signing - something to do with the eruption/evacuation. A documentary film company from the UK was to be in the area this week to do a story about the Chaiten volcano. Haven't seen them, but assume they will be spending most of their time with Chaiten issues. The volcano has blown another vent, and on the volcanism blog are photos of two plumes. Winds are blowing it to the northeast, which would be towards either Esquel, or Bariloche, or El Bolson, unless the plum is reaching higher altitudes, then further east towards BA. I'm wondering if this freak rain we've had for almost two weeks is caused by the ash "seeding" the clouds. I'm not versed in weather stuff, so I don't know. While it's cold, it seems warmer than normal.

On a personal note: My favorite tienda for ropa got in a new shipment of long johns, and I bought Greg and I some new sets. It's shameful we wear the same size (almost). Max has cabin fever but is behaving on walks. I have cabin fever but am compensating by cooking, baking and internet. I have a renewed appreciation for the early settlers of Futaleufu, and other remote, harsh-weather places. Our last functioning wrist watch bit the dust, so internet for now it the only time machine. I thought we had our winter solstice but the days seem to be getter shorter still!

Vicki

Vicki Lansen wrote:. . . . Update on Futa: More rain. We had one rain-free day with sunshine in over two weeks . . . . and it's back to raining...hard. Because there is still a substantial accumulation of ash in backyards and around houses, we have to keep on top of shoveling water troughs to keep the water from coming into the house.

It's a blessing, I think, to have the rain. The rivers will be clear much sooner than otherwise -- to say nothing of land and air.

Tedious, but a bendición.

Vicki Lansen wrote:. . . . The volcano has blown another vent, and on the volcanism blog are photos of two plumes. Winds are blowing it to the northeast, which would be towards either Esquel, or Bariloche, or El Bolson, unless the plum is reaching higher altitudes, then further east towards BA.

Porteño friends tell me that ash was visible and palpable for days after all this began, though much exceeded by the smoke from fires then burning in the pampas.

Vicki Lansen wrote:. . . . I'm wondering if this freak rain we've had for almost two weeks is caused by the ash "seeding" the clouds. I'm not versed in weather stuff, so I don't know. While it's cold, it seems warmer than normal. . . .

Recalling (I think) something of my studies in meteorology long, long ago, the ash is not likely a cause of rain. Whether it or the volcano has something to do with unseasonable warmth is another question; if it acts as an aerial blanket of sorts, it very well could.

Interestingly, one of the volcanologist I have corresponded with poo=pooed my suggestion that erupting volcanoes might contribute to climate warming. He said it is quite the opposite. I googled the subject and this is a short explanation:

"Volcanic eruptions are thought to be responsible for the global cooling that has been observed for a few years after a major eruption. The amount and global extent of the cooling depend on the force of the eruption and, possibly, its latitude. When large masses of gases from the eruption reach the stratosphere, they can produce a large, widespread cooling effect. As a prime example, the effects of Mount Pinatubo, which erupted in June 1991, may have lasted a few years, serving to offset temporarily the predicted greenhouse effect."

and

"Global cooling often has been linked with major volcanic eruptions. The year 1816 often has been referred to as "the year without a summer." It was a time of significant weather-related disruptions in New England and in Western Europe with killing summer frosts in the United States and Canada. These strange phenomena were attributed to a major eruption of the Tambora volcano in 1815 in Indonesia. The volcano threw sulfur dioxide gas into the stratosphere, and the aerosol layer that formed led to brilliant sunsets seen around the world for several years."

Anyway, an attempted trip to Palena today revealed several fields of standing water - the ash seeming to create a cement like layer that the water doesn't seem to perc down through. The river just south of the turnoff for Palena has jumped it's banks and created delta like riverlets, and at one point in the road, eroded it in an almost 2 meter washout. The road is completely impassible. At least the day was sunny with a mist, creating stunning rainbows, and we had some Tom Petty and Miles Davis to pass the time.

Vicki

Here is a photo of our first encounter with the road to Palena today (July 5, 09)

http://www.allchile.net/chilephotos/dis ... at=0&pos=3

But then this one was the stopper, although we've seen worse. There were no signs to tell us that the 40 kilometers we had already traveled were in vain. The vain part of it is that we didn't stop along the way to ask about the road. Duh!

http://www.allchile.net/chilephotos/dis ... at=0&pos=4

Stunning waterfalls, snowy mountains, sunshine and rainbows all the way though. So can't bitch too much. It was lovely.

I defer to the vulcanologist. I'm not even an amateur, as my student's exposure to the subject was long ago and I've not kept up even those superficial studies.

But (and here's the historian, I suppose), though 1816 was indeed a year without a summer (I say, writing from New England, where I remember as a child hearing elderly kinsmen refer once or twice to it, through allusion to recollections of elderly kinsmen in their youths), the following winter was milder, too. A similar phenomenon following Krakatoa, if I remember correctly (odd thing, though Pinatubo exploded during my lifetime, I don't remember much of anything about its climatological effect upon me! it must've been mild). So, my understanding is that the high-floating occlusions in the atmosphere both deflect some of the warming effects of the sun and suppress diffusion of warmth from the earth: milder summer, milder winter: thus, I'd have guessed that your present winter might be a bit warmer than usual, if anything.