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LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Anything related to legal issues, immigration, problems, regulations, tax issues, or any other law or legal related problem in Chile. Moderated By A Chilean Attorney.

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LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby eeuunikkeiexpat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:06 pm

Need advice from our esteemed host. Can you really be deported for getting involved in "domestic" political issues?

I was surprised to find that Mr. Tompkins has been living on a tourist visa despite his huge investments of land in Chile.

Will this bruhaha eventually effect persons like me that do not get involved in Chile politics and just want to be left alone??
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby eeuunikkeiexpat on Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:33 pm

The more I think about the recent news (see the recent Santiago Times article) the more I get pissed.

Yeah, what about that generous amnesty to illegal Peruvians despite the crime problems in El Centro and the direct observation of my mujer chilena on how they do affect the wages and job availability of working class chilenos?

How about those "Romanian" refugees you see begging in the streets years after Chile generously let them in bypassing the normal residency route?

Yes, the Chile government is indeed totally taken in by pure bullshit and corporate interests similar to the USA.

Deport (or threaten to deport) Doug Tompkins because he is a pain in the arse to the corporate ass kissing Chile government??

Don't mind my rantings folks, I'm off to drink another glass of vino tinto and watch an illegally downloaded movie :twisted: :lol:
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby admin on Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:18 am

well, guess we will see.

I don't see them being able to legally throw him out of the country just for being a political pain arse, but they can sure go back and examine all his paperwork. Tompkins is a big boy. He has lots and lots of lawyers and lots of political connections. I don't think Los rotos de Los Condes however are ready for the international bad press that would follow if they did, and how fast it would impact the Chilean economy and the World perception of Chile as just another corrupt Latin American country. They won't do it, even if they could.

Tompkins nailed them hard twice with the Salmon farming and the Dam project in the New York times in less than a month. Los Rotos being so stupid as to think they can simply let industry go wild in Southern Chile without regulation and no one will notice is not Tompkins fault, but the President's fault.

Bachelet is selling out the country. Just the fact that minister in her government would be allowed to make such ignorant statements publicly makes Chile look like Guatemala, El Salvador, or Panama where ignorant corruption is the norm. She is the one that should be thrown out of the country for undermining Chile's future.

Tompkins just happens to be pointing out the empress wares no clothes on a very public international stage that these people are not equipped to play on. They have been totally unable to get any traction at all around the World to counter those articles impact. Arguing on the side of environmental destruction is far from politically correct these days. Running a few articles in the local Chilean news papers does not have the economic and political clout of running articles in all those international papers.

Tompkin's was in the clothing industry for years. Most sport clothing is nothing but selling the perception that it is a superior product. Really what is the difference between Esprit and Nike, but the marketing campaign. He has been gearing up for this war for years, and they have been threatening to throw him out of the country for years.

Too bad there are not others to point out all the rest of the areas she is failing in such as Crime, infrastructure, jobs, eduction, tourism. and so on. I honestly believe she is actively trying to undermine the tourism industry because it also stands in the way of her anti-environmental plans. That dam project is not energy for Chileans, but energy for the mining industry. It will never make it to Santiago.

What ticket them off most recently was that Tompkins was asked by the financial news paper in Chile what he thought of Bachelet's environmental policy, and he said "what policy?". I totally agree.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby admin on Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:49 am

Bachelet is no match for Tompkins. Come on? We are talking about a president who got her political rear end handed to her by a bunch of little kids in the first year of her presidency.

In her defense, however I would say that she is at best a Lame duck president. She lacked the political power herself to really implement any sort of policy, and had to align herself with all the devils to get any sort of control. It would be kind of like an independent being elected president, and trying to influence the U.S. congress without the backing of either party.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby zulu789 on Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:29 am

For once I have to strongly disagree with some of the comments.

Without getting into the local politics ,i think the actions of Mr. Tompkins, are the same ones that generates the hate and the wrong perception of what we are and represent as Americans for the rest of the world.

Here , we have someone who has been living in this country for more than 14 years on and off as a tourist , buying and investing in land , receiving more than U$S 12.3 millions, according to the government in "donations", without paying taxes ...

And to top it off , criticizing the actions (right or wrong) of this government related to environmental and other issues....

Come on ,guys , let's be fair, i am not saying that the Chilean government is right or wrong on his proceedings, but certainly I think that the proceedings are not the "most correct" ones ,here...

Remember always , that you are a guest...and it is up to you, to make you feel welcomed....

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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby admin on Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:57 am

well those numbers and descriptions by the administration are mostly political B.S. Tompkins has very well structured and properly organized corporate entities including non-profit corporations that are in fully compliance (at least as far as I have heard and ones we have seen in practice) with the laws. This is not some tourist running a business under the table to avoid paying tax in Chile.

The government can not have it both ways. Just last year they where refusing to talk to Tompkins about the road through Pumalin park because he was no longer the owner of Pumalin park, but the nonprofit organization that he setup to manage was the real owner. Now, for political purposes they are making it sound like Tompkins is getting direct donations so he can go drinking or something.

I can not imaging his army of lawyers, law firms, and accountants with his political history allowing one little piece of paper or peso to slip by without proper handling including paying taxes. Pumalin (by the way there are thousands of more hectares of reserves under other companies and organizations in Chile) must employ an easy 1,000 or more people.

This would be like saying any international investor in any company in Chile, would need to apply for residency or anyone that donates to a none-profit organization that is working in Chile needs to apply for residency.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby admin on Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:13 pm

I might point out also, if the administration thinks they have the political backing, then they should go ahead and change the laws if they believe Tompkins is somehow taking advantage of them. They don't. I see there is already congressional opposition forming against the administrations actions.

By the way, they are not just targeting Tompkins but all the environmental groups. Many we have seen are little more than affiliations of concerned local citizens in the Patagonia. They are targeting Chileans also that are in opposition to the party line. Tompkins is just a high profile target. It is what they will do to the little grassroots organization without the big legal and financial backing that should be of real concern.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby admin on Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:18 pm

A lot of this has to do with Tompkins partner in the Marine reserve being Pinera. That is serious homegrown political backing and financial backing for Tompkins position. It is the administration trying to put the "evil foreigner" face on the issue.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby bezaj on Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:58 pm

zulu789 wrote:
Remember always , that you are a guest...and it is up to you, to make you feel welcomed....


but still, if you are in patagonia, are you chilean guest? isn't this part even maybe a world natural heritage where doesn't even live many chileans because most of them came from germany, italy, scandinavia..., if they weren't mapoche o chilote.

i don't automatically think that it is ok what is perfectly legal, but i think it's a very good for patagonia that thompson exists there and not in some other place.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby Vicki and Greg Lansen on Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:16 pm

In my humble opinion, many people in southern Chile feel that the rest of Chile, certainly Her Honor, aren't much concerned about Patagonia, the lack of good roads, the lack of eletricity, access to health care, high commodity prices (gas over $5 a gallon), worker safety on salmon farms. Don't get me wrong, the people aren't complaining, they do pretty good all on their own. But when the government decides they are finally aware this area exists - for the benefit of the rest of Chile - and at the expense only of Patagonia and it's one major resource - unspoiled natural beauty - you've got some folks who aren't too happy. People like Tomkins here - despite a strange effort to spread false rumors of his tax-cheating, land-grabbing, elitist and decadent lifestyle. No one here is holding their breath for the new pension program. No one here is holding their breath for a paved road, or reasonable hook-up for electricity. No one here is waiting for any kind of subsidy on foodstuffs or goods that cost outrageously more because of fuel and transport costs. So, the things people have here, the beautiful land, the fabulous rivers, and their way of life, all hang flapping in stinking wind of imminent domain theory. Tompkins may be a land baron, he may even be an elitist, but what he's done here does nothing to change the landscape, or the way of life. It preserves it and the reinforces Patagonians belief that it is worth preserving.

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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby Kate on Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:38 pm

Preservation and public awareness has been far more effective in private hands. Al Gore has made a much bigger impact as a private citizen than as VP. I have little hope that anyone in the current regime here in Chile is thinking about the greater good of preserving one of the last pristine places on Earth. Thank goodness for Mr Tompkins. I wish others like him would do the same in Brazil, Alaska, and other places where the environment urgently needs to be protected. Nationality is not important.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby RWS on Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:10 pm

I'd guess that nearly all who post here agree with you in this, Kate. I'd guess that the bulk of the Chilean clerisy do, too, and that few if any of the ruling Chilean coalition do. I wonder whether the patriotic opposition of Chile would agree were it not for the fact that by doing so they can yet again differentiate themselves from la presidenta y su partido.

The question I have is, what do ordinary Chileans think? Outside Patagonia, if even there, don't most ordinary, working-class Chileans simply want what promises the most material benefit in the shortest time, distant and merely speculative dangers no obstante? After all (I might guess that they reason), who can eat aesthetics?

What a jaundiced view of human nature! Must've been completing that horrid set of tax returns yesterday that put me in such a dismal mood.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby Rook on Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:48 pm

i believe average salary for Chileans is 400,000 CLP per month. So that means a good amount of Chileans are living with less. Seems easy to believe most Chileans wouldn't care less about enviroment then getting by each month. Even if it is legal, 14 years on a tourist visa seems a bit extreme and if I was an average Chilean I wouldn't care that Tompkins is within the laws, I would be asking what the heck......14 years as a tourist....be interesting to see if the laws for a tourist visa don't get modified in the future.
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby Rook on Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:55 pm

[quote="admin"]This would be like saying any international investor in any company in Chile, would need to apply for residency or anyone that donates to a none-profit organization that is working in Chile needs to apply for residency.[/quote]

but wouldn't an international investor or someone working on Chile technically be on something besides a tourist visa? I guess the tourist visa would be ok if he is spending more than half a year outside Chile and wouldn't qualify for residency
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Re: LEGAL OPINION - Doug Tompkins can be deported?

Postby Vicki and Greg Lansen on Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:13 am

You know, I will have to think long and hard about the previous two posts, and ask around. But I think this is not like someone who is making a living, or taking away from a Chilean by having a business here and owning land. I would guess that Thompins, with his savvy, might have made a huge amount of money in other ventures. Less controversial, safer, easier. So, until we are ready to filter in all the real or imagined issues (elitism, narcissism, greed, altruism, ) realistically, and measure them against the reality of his investment and return, we really can't have an honest discussion regarding Tompkins. Is this a media plus for his businesses? Does it serve him financially to do what he had done? Could he spend his money and time better for his own indulgences? Possibly his indulgences are the environment and this awesome area of the world. But then maybe he just wants to sell clothing! But I'm guessing that an effective marketing campaign in the US and Europe would cost less in money and aggravation than his bid to save Patagonia, even the very small part of it that he owns.

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