Chile Forum

Hey Vicki, I guess the problem with solar in Santiago is the pollution covering the panels. Somebody would have to clean them on a regular basis.

jalundberg is correct about the subsidies with solar panels in California. I think not only business owners, but also home owners. A number of other states are offering subsidies as well, plus the federal gov.

Yeah, Germany, Japan, and Canada are encouraging it as well. Here is a link I found:
http://www.thesolarguide.com/solar-ener ... tives.aspx

But maybe the question isn't one of providing subsidies for Solar in Chile, but maybe the government could make it cheaper for the consumer here to buy solar panels by reducing costs up front by reducing the import tax on such products. Why just solar, wind power too! Speaking of wind power, here is a link I found for an interesting wind generator. It

http://www.helixwind.com/en/whyHelixWorks.php
http://www.helixwind.com/en/

I am opposed to any subsidies in energy, maybe the wealthy countries may afford with that but Chile is far from this point. There are many better ways to waste government money in Chile.

Said that, I think that is not a matter of money. If tomorrow the goverment switch the 10 percent of cooper sales from defense to R and D on energetic efficiency we will make no advance, fake "institutions" will appear as mushrooms and money will fade with no real benefit, by now at least we are well armored -just in case- and the money is efficiently wasted

Chile has pioneered in many innovations as open markets, electronic government, etc. now it may pioneer in energetic efficiency, eliminating as many incandescent bulbs as possible. The first step -I think- is not to increase the energy supplies but low consumption, a friend of mine who has a small business of renewable energies http://nortei.cl showed me a last generation LED with the same light capacity of a dicroic but 1.5 watt consuption, Amazing! there are a long way in use the same energy in a more efficient way

Many in Chile do not know that the energy saving light bulbs the government is promoting has toxic levels of mercury. This is an environmental and health disaster in the making. Not to mention the high electromagnetic radiation emenating from them (try one of them near a radio, TV, but do not experiment on your computer )

TomBrad I will have to disagree that the government should stay out as I see the energy issue as a defense issue. Maybe no good ole boy profiting from R&D projects but how about basic things like immediate and actual construction of mini-hydro, wind, geothermal, solar to add to the grid? How about more large facilities to stockpile and distribute petroleum and natural gas? How about creative diplomacy to get a deal to fill up those facilities at a good price? Yes general conservation is good but I see Chileans in their quest to save money on their bills already efficient in this area (as compared to wasteful North America).

Asking merely out of curiosity, does the Chilean government allow landholders to erect electrical generating apparatusses on their own property? Some but not all of the United States do permit a landholder to dam a stream (for hydro-electricity), set up a windmill, etc., to take himself off the general grid.

EEUU, as Homer Simpson would say "in theory" your proposal is good, but "yo conozco a mi gente" (I know my own people) and I am pretty sure that to spent zillion of US dollars from government to research and development is the worst possible use for that money. We have not the culture of research, our universities are secured by a bunch of fat-cats, bureaucrats of science, half of them are dumb or idealist with credentials and the other half are unscrupulous. I prefer the private initiative and the develop of technologies only when they are profitable. Most of the best technology developed in Chile comes from privates improving their own business. Institutes and universities contribution is almost null despite the millions they receive every year from government.

We have a cultural, material, historic, limitation on our traditional research institutes who are the natural beneficiaries of government money. All those you mention will be developed, as soon as technology make it profitable.

RWS Chile is a pretty laises Fare country, you can do almost anything you can conceive into your own property (except if you live in a condo )

Oh EEUU I readed too quick your point. I fully agree with proposals such as creative diplomacy and correct incentives to better use the energy available, no question on that, I am only opposed to state spending money (more yet) I think that is enough spend for now, much better they start to spend less

I think we miscommunicated as I did not say anything about R&D in my posts.

I'm talking about off the shelf, existing technology to be used immediately to augment the grid. Of course the big storage facilities will require some funds but I'm sure this can be managed to keep graft as low as possible. Again all conventional technology. Just need to buy it and build it.

Either way, it will be interesting to see the political impact in Chile when the bills skyrocket and the rolling blackouts occur and the impact on GDP and other macroeconomic health indices.

Just an opinionated gringo.

EEUU, I am glad you mentioned those energy saving light bulbs and the mercury. I was going to mention that until I read to your post.

Tom, your friend has an interesting site.

I was very scepticall about the LED technology and their limitations but when I saw with my own eyes those high intensity LEDs such as http://www.automotivedesignline.com/products/161600519 I changed my mind, it is incredible see the amount of light produced with 3 AA 1.5 volt batteries

Now I am convinced that the future illumination will be all with LEDs and this will make the solar panels and other technologies viable, I saw it and I was very impressed

Yeah Tomas, those leds are really neat. A few years ago I was looking into led light bulbs. I got a couple to test out from Mule Lighthing (http://www.mulelighting.com). They worked pretty well. I was looking into building our next house with solar power and these led bulbs can reduce electricity consumption about 80% or so. Taking a quick look on their web site I can see that these bulbs can take a wide range of voltage (12vdc - 277vac). Thanks for jogging my memory about the led bulbs.

Oh, I forgot to mention about the led flashlights that I got at the store here. Pretty handy.

Very interesting and important point about the new energy saving lightbulbs everyone is racing to get so they feel better about having lights on all the time. I was fully prepared to go buy a box of them for our house which will be finished in about two weeks. Then I saw the mercury thing! Reminds me of the butter scare back in the 70's. Butter is HORRIBLE FOR YOU! Buy margarine! Don't eat butter! Of course, now we know (we think) that margarine, as it was then - was absolutely hideous for the human body to digest. I would have never thought to look into how the new energy saving bulbs were made, what was in them, or what happened when they were disposed of. Ok, that was off the energy subject, but I think it's a lesson for me.

I'm going to check out the LED stuff TomBrad talked about. And while I'm interested in "doing the right thing" when it comes to energy and the environment, it's also a selfish thing. I'd like to not be dependent on someone at the other end of a wire (except maybe Charles maintaining the forum!!!!) because I've come to see that flipping a switch is a fairly efficient way to ensure my life and lifestyle is chained to people who most likely do not have anyones best interest in mind, except their own.

Aside from the bathroom issue, our little cabin by the river suited me just fine. Up with the light, good water, some hard work, dark comes, dinner and reading by candle. But then I come in town to our rental cabin and spend the nights racing through the internet. Addicted I TELL YA! The new house will have gas, on-demand hot water and electric will be for 7 lightbulbs, and our TV/DVD. But I wrestle with the gas dependency, as small as it is.

Chile is at the precipice of an important decision about how it will sever the future needs of people here for energy. They can go a few ways, left right or center. How it chooses, will that be decided by whoever has the most money to lobby (i/e Endesa)? I wonder if the natural gas situation will make them wake up and smell the fumes. I wonder if they will just say the hell with it and dam the rivers, build the power lines and let the chips fall where they may.

The one thing about southern Chile that I think has saved it in the past from philandering politics, is the staggering remoteness. But I don't think that will hold for long, already it's become the raging dreams of big energy companies in several countries...conquer the wilderness! Tame it!

RWS, yes, I believe you can, in certain areas, pretty much make your own world, hydro, wind, whatever. But you'd better hurry!

Vicki

While searching for sites that might have information on Solar use in Chile, I came across this article dated December 10, 2007.

Chile: Uncertain Energy Landscape

The impact of Chile's energy problems on industry, housing and the economy.

http://www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/a ... px?id=1891

Oh, I came across another article about energy in Chile. The article was from Feb 15, 2008.

CHILE: Drought Raises Likelihood of Energy Rationing

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41223

In the article there was also something about the daylight savings time thing, which has caused my computers to not know what time it is here.

Now Bachelet has ordered a voltage reduction, from 220 to 210 volts, and has extended use of daylight saving time until Mar. 29 instead of changing over on Mar. 8, as previously scheduled.

Speaking of daylight savings time and computers, here is an interesting article that I found. Charles can attest to the problem of having different times on his computers. The article is about the US moving daylight savings time and I think is relevant to the moving of the time in Chile too. Both were 3 weeks.

The Daylight Saving change: no savings, no point

Published: April 03, 2007

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... point.html