Chile Forum

Gene, I saw the same report. It's truly awful. And I think, "Why is that?" Does anyone care why it's happening, or is it more profitable to throw money at the problem at that end, as opposed to looking at the sources? Anyone who touts the greatness of the US these days, needs a reality check. We've (as a country) strayed a long, long way from being sensible, and reasonable, and sound-thinking.

More significant are the numbers of people behind bars for none violent crimes. Big money in pork barrel projects to put people behind bars. Looks good on the political campaign trail.

You look at countries like Norway or Sweden, and there is a waiting list to do your jail time. They refuse to spend money on building more prisons. You commit a crime in those countries, get convicted, and then take a number to do your time. I read an article a while back about a guy who had been waiting 3 years to do something like a 6 month sentence and how it was hard on his daily life because he was planning to start a family and get married. This all when they even give prison as a sentence. he had been convicted of robbery.

There are also a huge number of convicted people for "crime without victims" related with possession, smuggling or commerce of drugs. The war against drugs explain good part of those figures and -I know this is controversial- I think that having no victims people must not be imprisoned. It is not hard to me compare with prohibition of alcohol and their long lasting results, Sicilian mafias and such

Thomas, I agree with you. I live in a rural area. There for a time all of the police officer's yards looked like used auto dealerships. It seems that property seized for drugs can be purchased by them, then other government workers, before publically auctioned. Also the funds go to the police budget. Real incentive to bust them, even to the point of frame them. Prisons are also becoming private enterprises.

Also, I believe that the government wants all people to be felons. They are deprived of many rights for life such as gun ownership, voting, and it is even illegal for them to associate with other felons. With probably half of the people being felons, that should be interesting at parties etc. Seems they can be picked up most any time. Sad state of things.

Yes, it is a very disturbing idea that may be profitable turn the people into felons.

I think that if the legal system concentrated to prosecutethe felony associated to drugs, instead of trade or consuption, it would be much more effective. There are many real criminals, who victimize people free because so many resources are devoted to prosecute vicious people. Ok vice is a bad thing but is up to the individuals, not a government business, and people must be educated -not jailed- against abuse.

I know there are moral considerations and such against drug and I respect it, but I think that war and prohibition has been pretty useless and caused lot of unintended consequences as distraction of resources, maffias, and jails crowded

I have to agree with what has been said so far concerning the rate of imprisonment. I think the US could benefit from switching the focus to rehabilitation (with the obvious exception of violent crimes). This would be especially helpful taking into account the large amount of drug addicts imprisoned for either posession of the drug of choice or a related crime.

A poster on another thread listed a Patagonia video from archive.org, so I watched it (very interesting) and started searching around the site. On it, I found a recent three-hour documentary called, "The Power of Fear" produced by the BBC. It goes directly to the subject that has been discussed in this thread and I will watch it again, and again. Basically, it is the history of radical islamic fundamentalism and neo-conservatism starting in the 1940's, through now. You don't have to download it (but you can) it streams quickly, and the three parts load up automatically. I'd love to hear from anyone who watches this documentary and hear what your thoughts are. You can bet this won't be shown in the US!


http://www.archive(dot)org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

Vicki

Vicky,

Very good post.
A few years ago, the young girls were wearing necklaces with a pendant which was a small glass vial containing a very tiny drop of mercury. One day at recess, one of the necklaces was torn off of a girl's neck and the vial lost. Presumably broken. Before long a full hazmat team showed up, suits and all, and began the clean up effort. The process began by taking all of the shoes to be disposed of as hazardous waste, and disinfecting all of the children. The dirt was taken and placed in hazardous material barrels and sent off to a hazardous waste storage facility somewhere. I don't have an estimate of the cost, but it must have been very expensive.
I am glad that I grew up in a time when we could discover the marvels of coating pennies in mercury and watching it burst into hundreds of small droplets to be gathered back together again. I didn't realize at the time that I would die if I so much as looked at this vial toxicant.

At our local dump, we are charged a hazardous material disposal fee on things such as computer monitors. I guess the glass contains a large amount of lead. Of course, my leaded crystal stremwear seems somehow different. I just can't see how myself.

Yes, We have been trained to fear everything and really are not allowed to question what is really dangerous........

True indeed, "the dose makes the poison" I used to play with mercury when I was a kid and I am still alive, even too much water can kill you, not to mention too much beer. It may be the modern horror to pain and die, it is an anesthesia-oriented society. We are talking as grandpas!"in my youth kids, everything was better"

If they weren't passing laws and creating ways to fine people, we would only regard it as the silliness that it indeed is.

If there's a silver lining to the slow motion USD collapse, it's that the taxes (err fines) won't go near as far as they used to.

yea, whole election reminds of one of those comedies from the 80's making fun of the USSR where you have two guys standing in front of a communist election posters in some east block country. One has a blue boarder and one has a red boarder, but the guy in the photo is the same person. The guys are asking each other who they are going to vote for in the next election.

The any buddy but Bush party is the only party, even in the republican party. It is another sort of fear mongering.

Notice however how terrorism seems to have dropped out of everyones discussion, now that the economy is crashing, oil is over $100 a barrel, and the bad economic news keeps rolling in.

I do find it rather telling that if you look back at our discussions on the forum in the last year, that we started talking about this crash / recession well over a year ago, and better than 6 months ago we were are all talking in very certain terms about a recession in the sense of not would it happen but how bad would it be. Are we the canneries in the coal mine that no one is paying attention to? Perhaps we are just the rats leaving the ship.

Now I would not be too hesitant to jump in to discussion about a possible depression, perhaps even a deep one. All the conditions are ripe for one, at least as far as the United States is concerned. The American consumer, the anchor of the U.S. economy is down and out of blood to bleed. The world economies have unhooked themselves in a very significant way from the U.S. economy. Even little old Chile is now doing more trade with China than the U.S. The Federal reserve has lost all control of the economy, with a stagflation. The oil prices in the United States are starting to look more like oil prices in the rest of the World. The developing markets of China and India will feel it bad, as they are so tide to the American consumer. Food price inflation all over the world is very serious. What else did I forget?

Charles says, "What else did I forget?" eeuu, ends his posts with,"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free — Goethe". And I think that about says it all. Leo Strauss loved those kind (above)of freedom loving people, as do his disciples, the neocons, and they perpetuate that by manipulation, fear, and guilt, the media being an unwitting main player (or witting, what do I know). As eeuu said, it's sad to say that you don't care anymore. I understand that. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. More than anything else, I guess it pisses me off, because really, there is nothing I can do to change the headlong drunken fall going on. And I know who is going to be devastated by what we see happening...my father who just retired at the age of 70 (his 401K now worth less than half, and who did EVERYTHING RIGHT ALL HIS LIFE), my children (one with a masters degree, unemployed for eight months, two who work two jobs each and have no health insurance, my mother who has no retirement and gets $600 a month in SS, her well going dry, paying taxes on a paid for house that is over-valued. I try not to care, but there are so many people like that, some realize they are the victims of the "great compromise", some don't. I wish there would be some accountability for things like Enron, and the sub-prime mortgage mess, Iraq, but we won't see that. Okay, nuff said. I need an attitude readjustment this morning! I think I'll get a good book, and take leave of the real world for a while!

Yea, I forgot accountability.

I feel like the victim of crime that has to see the perpetrators on every TV channel, knowing that no one will ever catch them.

If I did not believe in Karma, all hope would be lost.

I figured it out. They are all high.

Drugs found in 24 major U.S. cities.

http://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/16431436.html